Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Legacy Products > Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-04-2015, 11:28 AM
atticmike atticmike is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Green
Posts: 140
Default Pro Tools 7 TDM Plugin Clipping

Howdy there,

I have a question for those who had worked with PT 7.4 on a TDM System:

Did clipping a plugin in the old days always result really in clipping with the fixed point system or clean unless the channel's headroom was met?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-04-2015, 11:34 AM
JFreak's Avatar
JFreak JFreak is online now
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Tampere, Finland
Posts: 22,443
Default Re: Pro Tools 7 TDM Plugin Clipping

Clipping TDM is always audible. However, some plugins oversample and *may* result in an unclipped signal. Even then, the red bulb made me adjust the levels.
__________________
Janne
What we do in life, echoes in eternity.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-04-2015, 11:36 AM
atticmike atticmike is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Green
Posts: 140
Default Re: Pro Tools 7 TDM Plugin Clipping

Quote:
Originally Posted by JFreak View Post
Clipping TDM is always audible. However, some plugins oversample and *may* result in an unclipped signal. Even then, the red bulb made me adjust the levels.
So in theory, every clipped tdm instance, regardless of the plugin's intentional setup, resulted in clipping?

Nowadays, there are just a few plugins that really clip when exceeding the internal 0 dbfs mark, like Linmb from Waves. So I could stack up 50 dB crossing over 0, not clipping if I pull it down again by 50 before the physical out.

I mean, nowadays it doesn't matter, unless I clip the last output when ITB / going out on an output? Didn't the old plugins work the same way? Internally if not intentional, not clipping? Unless the channel's headroom was met and no channel fader pulled down?

Also, when you for example clipped a channel before heading to the last internal bus instance, did it clip or arrive at let's say +10 over 0 in the last bus instance and then clipped before the physical output?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-04-2015, 11:41 AM
JFreak's Avatar
JFreak JFreak is online now
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Tampere, Finland
Posts: 22,443
Default Re: Pro Tools 7 TDM Plugin Clipping

If it clips on the TDM-land, it is clipped. Plugin's internal processing is another story, and the clipping light is lit when the signal hits 0.0dBFS (it doesn't care what the plugin does internally)
__________________
Janne
What we do in life, echoes in eternity.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-04-2015, 11:44 AM
atticmike atticmike is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Green
Posts: 140
Default Re: Pro Tools 7 TDM Plugin Clipping

Quote:
Originally Posted by JFreak View Post
If it clips on the TDM-land, it is clipped. Plugin's internal processing is another story, and the clipping light is lit when the signal hits 0.0dBFS (it doesn't care what the plugin does internally)
but what if you clip the plugin, that didn't have an intentional clipping built in and then pulled the fader down afterwards?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-04-2015, 11:47 AM
JFreak's Avatar
JFreak JFreak is online now
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Tampere, Finland
Posts: 22,443
Default Re: Pro Tools 7 TDM Plugin Clipping

Quote:
Originally Posted by atticmike View Post
but what if you clip the plugin, that didn't have an intentional clipping built in and then pulled the fader down afterwards?
If the fader is after the plugin, then it doesn't help clipping. Master fader plugins though are post-fader so in that case it would help.
__________________
Janne
What we do in life, echoes in eternity.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-04-2015, 02:19 PM
atticmike atticmike is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Green
Posts: 140
Default Re: Pro Tools 7 TDM Plugin Clipping

Quote:
Originally Posted by JFreak View Post
If the fader is after the plugin, then it doesn't help clipping. Master fader plugins though are post-fader so in that case it would help.
What about the waves ssl channel / g-eq / puigtech and cla 76 compressors?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-04-2015, 04:12 PM
atticmike atticmike is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Green
Posts: 140
Default Re: Pro Tools 7 TDM Plugin Clipping

Okay so I really didn't think the waves ssl channel clipped but yeah, it does distort and the puigtec as well.

So red tdm plugins clipped always?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-04-2015, 11:32 PM
JFreak's Avatar
JFreak JFreak is online now
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Tampere, Finland
Posts: 22,443
Default Re: Pro Tools 7 TDM Plugin Clipping

Quote:
Originally Posted by atticmike View Post
Okay so I really didn't think the waves ssl channel clipped but yeah, it does distort and the puigtec as well.

So red tdm plugins clipped always?
Yes, stay away from the red. Don't record so hot. If you already have hot tracks, trim them lower, for example by audiosuiting them with Gain, or normalizing to some lower volume.

TDM mixer has 48bit resolution so you don't have to be living on the edge all the time. Your tracks probably have less than 20bit dynamics so you don't gain anything if the peaks are higher than -20dBFS

Hope this helps :)
__________________
Janne
What we do in life, echoes in eternity.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-05-2015, 10:48 AM
atticmike atticmike is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Green
Posts: 140
Default Re: Pro Tools 7 TDM Plugin Clipping

Quote:
Originally Posted by JFreak View Post
Yes, stay away from the red. Don't record so hot. If you already have hot tracks, trim them lower, for example by audiosuiting them with Gain, or normalizing to some lower volume.

TDM mixer has 48bit resolution so you don't have to be living on the edge all the time. Your tracks probably have less than 20bit dynamics so you don't gain anything if the peaks are higher than -20dBFS

Hope this helps :)
I appreciate your concern about my way of recording but I do understand what headroom is and all the necessary preparations / recording levels / losses when printing hot.

To me, this topic mostly revolves around mixing and what happens when you go barking red in a tdm plugin, whether i'd not only clip the plugins intended distortion characteristic but also the tdm engine?

I think i might have to ask a plugin developer who's been around in the PT 7 days.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Edit window visual clipping and audio clipping question... Jakay Pro Tools 11 4 07-22-2015 07:52 PM
Plugin inserts do not show when clipping Ruvann macOS 6 02-27-2011 01:42 PM
Pro Tools not indicating clipping RhysC Pro Tools M-Powered (Win) 2 10-13-2010 11:40 PM
Preamp Clipping Pro Tools at -10dB! 2012 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 1 03-16-2006 10:24 PM
virtualizer clipping, pro tools headroom ok? neonknight 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 3 10-26-2004 03:03 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:51 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com