MIDI Hanging Notes troubleshooting - sustain - arpeggiators - 3rd Party many VIs

[Actionmusic]

I’m 2022.10 Mac Ultra Monterey but this issue has been around for ever - hanging notes when stopping play back - randomly , certain VI’s hang. Kontakt, Spire, Native Instruments, Arturia, Omnisphere, lots -

I’ve been investigating and contacted support but anyone else fancies checking their sessions see what you find and maybe we’re closer to some solution

I grabbed this AAX free Midi monitor and it showed a couple of interesting things https://aixdsp.com/midi-monitor/

1: the “All Midi Notes” off menu command actually sends controller 123 “Mutes all sounding notes” - this has never really worked , and doesn’t work for the main hanging issue. It also turns out that monitoring various channels it doesn’t always get sent, another bug possibly , linked to what is record active (but not always). Have a look!

2: by placing the monitor after a VI that has this issue and using CTRL and selecting the midi monitor in the midi output of the channel AS WELL as the soft synth you can in essence see what the softsynth is receiving for PT. Every time there is no sustain problem you see a note off after the Controller 123 1-16 sweep after pressing transport stop. However every time you get the sustain problem you should see PT sent both a note on and note off after the C123 messages. You may also notice a missing note off.

So why is this making the effect of the hang? Are the messages too fast and there is congestion? Why are they after the C123 offs? Is this something to do with at what point you stop the transport or is it completely random?

As one can’t generate a note off, or do velocity of zero in PT (same as note off apparently), and not being a sysex wiz the solution is to hit the offending note on our attached keyboard. And it stops. But when you have 50 VIS in a dense session and this being random you can’t go and do this for every plug. Every plugin and session where this is a factor and I monitor I’m seeing a similar result ( I am assuming the accuracy of the midi monitor here)

As far as I know only PT itself can send midi to a channel instrument when not in record mode, so we can’t create a program to send all offs on all channels without record arming. If it’s not so easy to find out why this is happening a temporary solution might be for Avid to build in a “panic” menu option which actually sends note off on every channel , every note, to every instrument.

I would LOVE to have this solved , it’s my number one midi problem in sessions. Any more evidence or insights please add or tell support!

[massivekerry]

Originally Posted by johnsimmons

I’m 2022.10 Mac Ultra Monterey but this issue has been around for ever - hanging notes when stopping play back - randomly , certain VI’s hang. Kontakt, Spire, Native Instruments, Arturia, Omnisphere, lots -

I’ve been investigating and contacted support but anyone else fancies checking their sessions see what you find and maybe we’re closer to some solution

I grabbed this AAX free Midi monitor and it showed a couple of interesting things https://aixdsp.com/midi-monitor/

1: the “All Midi Notes” off menu command actually sends controller 123 “Mutes all sounding notes” - this has never really worked , and doesn’t work for the main hanging issue. It also turns out that monitoring various channels it doesn’t always get sent, another bug possibly , linked to what is record active (but not always). Have a look!

2: by placing the monitor after a VI that has this issue and using CTRL and selecting the midi monitor in the midi output of the channel AS WELL as the soft synth you can in essence see what the softsynth is receiving for PT. Every time there is no sustain problem you see a note off after the Controller 123 1-16 sweep after pressing transport stop. However every time you get the sustain problem you should see PT sent both a note on and note off after the C123 messages. You may also notice a missing note off.

So why is this making the effect of the hang? Are the messages too fast and there is congestion? Why are they after the C123 offs? Is this something to do with at what point you stop the transport or is it completely random?

As one can’t generate a note off, or do velocity of zero in PT (same as note off apparently), and not being a sysex wiz the solution is to hit the offending note on our attached keyboard. And it stops. But when you have 50 VIS in a dense session and this being random you can’t go and do this for every plug. Every plugin and session where this is a factor and I monitor I’m seeing a similar result ( I am assuming the accuracy of the midi monitor here)

As far as I know only PT itself can send midi to a channel instrument when not in record mode, so we can’t create a program to send all offs on all channels without record arming. If it’s not so easy to find out why this is happening a temporary solution might be for Avid to build in a “panic” menu option which actually sends note off on every channel , every note, to every instrument.

I would LOVE to have this solved , it’s my number one midi problem in sessions. Any more evidence or insights please add or tell support!

This is really well-analyzed and written. Would love you too submit a support case for it. I'd like to see this fixed as well, but maybe you pointing them in the right direction might help.

[Actionmusic]

Thanks , I have submitted a support case, currently I can't reply back to them due to an error displaying Visualforce content on Safari , lol even googling the DUC for support on the support case.

But just flagging if anyone else has time who has been bothered by this regularly could see what results they get would be great, and maybe we're near a reproduceable issue.

I had my session disrupted by an hour on this hanging issue this morning so thought i'd spend a few hours on troubleshooting after that. Lord know how many hours this glitch has wasted over the years!

[Eric Lambert]

Good post. It's nice to see some deeper insight and data.

I've mentioned this problem 4 or 5 times on this forum (and others) and have Kontacted all the developers whose products are most susceptible to this bug and nothing has really been done in the big picture. There was one fix for NI's Monark, which involved a tweak to the primary Monark file, but beyond that little has been done. The largest offender for me is Output's Arcade which is a mess. It was a mess on my trashcan and it's still a mess on my new Mac Studio. And now they've removed the 'reset audio' button which would temporarily fix this in past years. Output blames Avid and Avid blames Output. That whole ping-pong game of accountability denial.

Please do pursue this with Avid. A real fix would be a dream come true.