Can the MBOX Studio do more than 8 outputs simultaneously?

[spacepluk]

I'm testing an MBOX Studio and although it's advertised as a 21x22 interface I'm only seeing 8 outputs in my DAW.

Also if I add an ADAT interface it looks like the new inputs/outputs have to be mapped to the 8 internal channels. So I can't for example have outboard gear through ADAT and also do reamping/inserts using the existing I/O in the mbox.

Am I missing something? Did I buy the wrong interface?

[Darryl Ramm]

What exactly is your DAW? Your Profile says Pro Tools Intro but profiles are frequently out of date.

But yes the mbox Studio is very much centered on its hardware mixer and AFAIK it only has 8 DAW Returns that go into that mixer.

If you want to use HW Inserts with Pro Tools the input and output port used on the interface need to match numerically (the name is irrelevant/you can change names in Setup>IO to whatever you want). But there are other routing options for reamping a guitar.

what is all the different IO connectivity you want and what is your budget?

[spacepluk]

Thanks for your help! I was hoping I was missing something but it seems I'm going to have to return it... For the DAW I'm probably going to be on Pro Tools Studio after my trial expires (switching from Cubase Pro 12).

Budget is not a problem but space/form-factor is. That's why the MBOX was so appealing before I realized it's limited to 8 channels. And also I just found out that the ground lift only works with the hi-z out connection on the front

I wanted to have at least two amps connected as HW inserts with reactive loads, a bunch of fx pedals also as HW inserts, a couple of mics and also a couple of hardware synths. This seems impossible to do with the 8 channel limitation and the first/last are already taken by the main outputs and the inserts/reamping. Also I want all of that to be wired permanently and readily accessible with few spare ins/outs for testing quick stuff on the spot.

[Darryl Ramm]

The step up to have lots of analog I/O on an interface significantly increases cost. And moves you to a rack mount hardware... which you *will* want if you want to cable up lots of stuff to it and leave that in place. You may end up with patch bays, cable snakes etc. and you will just not want all the cables pulling out of the interface or pulling the interface off the desk.

In the USA I'd have recommenced you call Vintage King and talk to a sales rep. Folks there seem to be better than other dealers, .. but it depends on who exactly you get. I just have no idea who to recommend in Europe or if Thomann sales is typically good enough to ask. Germany must have some dealers worth talking to/getting suggestions/ideas from.

One box I'd consider is the Avid MTRX Studio with the new Thunderbolt card. That gets you a CoreAudio interface with 16x16 analog I/O on DB-25 (so easy to go to patch bays or studio snake cables). Two mic/DI inputs.. but the can selected mic or DI you only have two in total to use (as with any real DI it is effectively part of or uses the gain of a separate preamp). And ADAT and Dante expansion if you want that in future. And DADman the little clunky but super powerful routing/hardware monitoring software. These boxes are actually designed and manufactured by DAD in Denmark. Very lovely stuff. And I hope DAD standing behind it means great long term support say for the CoreAudio driver (which is 100% from DAD). Avid made a great choice to partner with DAD/NTP. The thunderbotl card is very new so might still be a wait on deliveries.

Other folsk here recently have highlighted that Lynx has some nice products, e.g. https://vintageking.com/lynx-studio-...aurora-n-16-tb

My personal first choice would be interfaces from RME (go Germany!) but that's because I already have multiple of their boxes and I like MADI for interconnecting stuff. RME could initially be more expensive to set up lots of I/O with their gear, say taking a USB-3 RME Fireface UFX III interface (https://www.rme-audio.de/fireface-ufx-3.html) and if you need more I/O connecting an RME 1610 Pro 16x10 analog expansion to it via MADI. Or maybe the Fireface UFX III (or it's lower cost models in that family) will do all you need. You could also save money using Ferrofish or other third party ADAT expansion boxes. The quality of RME software drivers, their long term driver support and technical support are just incredible. And their TotalMix hardware monitoring software is great (no limit there in the number of DAW returns, you get enough returns to send or patch anything to anything).

The Avid carbon is also an option, especially if you want that HW buffer independence low latency DSP tracking though plugins. (which who knows you might really want say if also wanting to track through amp sims) but to me it's more of an unuusal box and given I want to work Logic Pro as wellis less appealing. And the sheer amount of I/O and DADman on the MTRX Studio is appealing. Some folks in the USA have pocked up unbundled Carbon units recently at very low prices. The Pro Tools bundled licensing with Carbon is overly complex, lots of discussion on DUC. With Avid being acquired by a private equity company I do have some concerns about investing too much in their hardware and what might happen to long term support (so like that the Studio MTRX driver actually comes from DAD).

There are also lower-cost option from good vendors including MOTU, Focustrite, Presonus, etc. All of which might do exactly what you need.. but I'd start by looking at some of the options I mentioned so you can compare others to them. And download and read the user documentation for interesting looking boxes.

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You will likely need outboard DI and reamp boxes, maybe external analog or ADAT preamps maybe a patch panel or studio snake boxes, cables etc. all that will add cost.

As with any hardware insert setup (including some using Digilink interfaces) you may need to pay attention to manually adjusting interface latency compensation, things might not be as easy as you imagine, and there are a bug or two floating around that are avoidable. I've written about that all on DUC before, but once you have the hardware setup ask for help it it's not making sense.

[albee1952]

According to the main website:
https://www.avid.com/products/mbox-studio
The Mbox Studio can provide 21 x 22 simultaneous I/O at 24-bit, 44.1/48 kHz;
Of course, higher sample rates will cut the number of inputs(as usual). I suspect that the OP is either at a higher sample rate, or is doing something incorrectly. For me, I have no problem seeing the extra 8 inputs when I have a lightpipe preamp connected(Behringer ADA8200) in a 48K session.

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by albee1952

According to the main website:
https://www.avid.com/products/mbox-studio
The Mbox Studio can provide 21 x 22 simultaneous I/O at 24-bit, 44.1/48 kHz;
Of course, higher sample rates will cut the number of inputs(as usual). I suspect that the OP is either at a higher sample rate, or is doing something incorrectly. For me, I have no problem seeing the extra 8 inputs when I have a lightpipe preamp connected(Behringer ADA8200) in a 48K session.

OUTPUTS! He is specifically talking about outputs, and clearly not the total count of physical I/O that the hardware mixer can address. The MBox Studio appears brain dead limited to 8 DAW return outputs, and worse that is not clearly called out in marketing material. If you have one and can show how to bypass that limit then please have at it...

[spacepluk]

Hey Darryl thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed answer! It's super helpful and it seems I'll have some research to do if I don't find a solution hahah!

Originally Posted by albee1952

According to the main website:
https://www.avid.com/products/mbox-studio
The Mbox Studio can provide 21 x 22 simultaneous I/O at 24-bit, 44.1/48 kHz;
Of course, higher sample rates will cut the number of inputs(as usual). I suspect that the OP is either at a higher sample rate, or is doing something incorrectly. For me, I have no problem seeing the extra 8 inputs when I have a lightpipe preamp connected(Behringer ADA8200) in a 48K session.

Yeah, that marketing line and the fact it has an optical output were the main reasons I bought it. Most interfaces only have an optical input. But as it stands the optical output in the MBOX seems completely useless to me. Do you get any additional internal channels when you connect the optical output?

Maybe I'm missing something or doing something incorrectly... that would be great! haha!

[spacepluk]

I forgot to say I'm running at 48Khz so that's not it.

[spacepluk]

Ok, I found this in the manual:



It says only 8 outputs on the right side under "Computer"... So I guess that confirms that it's actually limited to 8 outputs even though in the same manual it also says this:



I think that's highly misleading marketing and I'm a bit annoyed I fell for it. When you read "22 simultaneous maximum outputs" you don't think they are limited to just 8 different things repeating across the 22.

Does Avid read this forum? Any chance this can be fixed by a software update?

[Darryl Ramm]

No this cannot be fixed by a software update. Certainly not on the driver side, it would require the interface to be built with hardware capable of more DAW returns and that not implemented and left to enable later with a firmware update…. That is pigs will fly unlikely. Check outside if you see any pigs flying.

Let go of the Mbox Studio, your job is to return this to the reseller for a refund ASAP and purchase a more suitable interface.