trouble routing to master fader

[radioinactive]

I am using Pro Tools HD 2 Accel 8.1 on an intel Mac tower 10.6.4 OSX
Using an Apogee DA16 x and a Rosetta 800 with XD cards as interfaces. When I create a Master Fader, Pro Tools will not let me use the main Output, which in this case is DA16 1-2. If I select DA 1-2 as output the Master fader output reverts to Analog 8 (faded) Any Ideas on how to remedy are appreciated. Thanks...

[Bookerv12]

Hi,
Are you creating a stereo master fader?
Remember, master faders control output pairs, either busses or hardware outputs in ProTools.
Your channels have to be assigned to your outputs.

Hope I am understanding your question.

[radioinactive]

Yes, I'm creating a stereo master fader. All my channels are assigned to my main outputs. In this case which are 1-2 of my DA 16x.

[SoundReplay]

You can have as many master faders as you want (and they are not taking up any HD processing power), but you can only have 1 master fader per output (single or pair). Make sure that there is no other master fader assigned to the output you want to assign a master fader to.

Did you try to delete all master faders and than assign one to your Apogee?

Dirk

[jeremyroberts]

Originally Posted by radioinactive

Yes, I'm creating a stereo master fader.

Time to clarify some protools terminology....

A "master fader" is never "created". A master fader, by default, is automatically (ALWAYS) created by the software, for every bus and every output, and is set to unity. It is always there, you just can't see it, as it is "hidden" by default.

When you "add a track" and select "master fader" for a bus or physical output, you are simply making the master fader visible.

You may say, "SEMANTICS" -- but it's not.

Many "engineers" do not understand how the protools mixer is built, so they make mixer and routing choices that are not optimized for protools.

If you are not mixing to a bus, please consider this workflow. Then you can bus to an aux and assign outputs, etc... and your "master fader" is no longer a "master fader", but rather, an aux. You can then use the real "master fader" to do what it does best - and use the aux to do what it does best.

Remember, the real master fader inserts are post-fader, and aux inserts are pre-fader.

Read all about it here: The Pro Tools 48-Bit Mixer

[radioinactive]

Jeremy,
When I create a stereo master fader. The newly created fader has a different output than the rest of my channels. When I attempt to change the output to match that of my other channels it "greys out" Thank you for your understanding of the pro tools mixer.

[jeremyroberts]

Originally Posted by radioinactive

Jeremy,
The newly created fader has a different output than the rest of my channels. When I attempt to change the output to match that of my other channels it "greys out"

Sure you don't have a masterfader with the same routing hidden?

[Sean Russell]

What happens when you control-command-click the italicized output on the master fader?

[WildHoney]

Originally Posted by jeremyroberts

Time to clarify some protools terminology....

A "master fader" is never "created". A master fader, by default, is automatically (ALWAYS) created by the software, for every bus and every output, and is set to unity. It is always there, you just can't see it, as it is "hidden" by default.

When you "add a track" and select "master fader" for a bus or physical output, you are simply making the master fader visible.

You may say, "SEMANTICS" -- but it's not.

Many "engineers" do not understand how the protools mixer is built, so they make mixer and routing choices that are not optimized for protools.

If you are not mixing to a bus, please consider this workflow. Then you can bus to an aux and assign outputs, etc... and your "master fader" is no longer a "master fader", but rather, an aux. You can then use the real "master fader" to do what it does best - and use the aux to do what it does best.

Remember, the real master fader inserts are post-fader, and aux inserts are pre-fader.

Read all about it here: The Pro Tools 48-Bit Mixer

So, Jeremy, can you clarify how you set up your mixing scheme vis a vis master faders and auxes?

[jeremyroberts]

It's really quite simple -- and many have posted identical routings over the years... I am one of many that work this way...

Rule #1: Establish a stereo bus. I call mine "2mix". Set this as the default output for all mono and/or stereo tracks in your I/O.

Rule #2: Make a stereo Aux. Call it "2MIX" Input source: "2mix" bus, output; hardware outs (so you can hear it, most would use "analog 1-2" or whatever you use to get to your control room monitors). Solo safe this aux!

Rule #3: NEVER EVER send anything directly to the hardware (except the 2mix aux) -- if you want to hear it, it must go to 2mix, UNLESS YOU HAVE A GOOD REASON to do so (see rule #1).

That's all there is to it! By default, I also enable a stereo master fader for the 2mix bus -- but if my levels and gain staging are good, I should never have to touch it.

When it's time to print, make a new track, input: 2mix bus, output: hardware (same as the "2MIX aux"), and simply mute the 2MIX aux.

I typically do not PRINT with mastering plugs or inserts on the 2mix bus, but if I wanted to, I would put the plugs on the 2MIX AUX (not the master fader), then use bus routing to print the mix, since the inserts or plugs are PREFADER. Once or twice in my life I wanted a post-fader effect while printing, and I simply added the insert on the masterfader for the print bus.

And yes, delay comp is always on when mixing.

This technique is not all too different from an old-school analog desk with a mixbus that must be designated and a "master fader" that must be routed to.

ProTools' choice to call the bus and output masters "master faders" is what confuses many -- but since the AUX track is so flexible, you can do whatever you want with it.

NOW --- there is a situation when you may want to work to the hardware -- and that is related to an ADC related workflow -- but for 99% of the people 99% of the time, this basic routing is most flexible, and all you need. NOT working to the hardware allows you to make a late change to bussing -- or simply do some creative routing if/as needed. Or you can route your iTunes playback to the hardware -- but why not send it where the talent could hear it if you want to play something for them when in the booth? This technique also becomes an anchor point for printing stems.

HTH

J