Tracking Vocals

[Numi]

I am having trouble tracking vocals without getting a lot of high end airy noise. My recording room is extremely quiet and I have reflection foam placed in proper places to prevent echo, but it seems that when I drive the Samson Condenser Mic connected to the Pesonus Eureka(Fairly Hot to be at decent distance from the mic) it gives me a lot of airy noise. I also get a very similar result when I use the ART MP Tube Preamp...actually I think it's a little worse.

I've tried adjusting all the settings on my Eureka, from the default settings to extreme settings and I get the same result.

I did notice when I connect my Shure 58 to the Eureka, it has a lot more room before it gets Too Hot and Airy.

So is it the mic? Am I trying to record to Hot(even though, I am aiming for around -4db to -6db peak? Should I be singing louder? Is it the mic, this Samson CO3 isn't the best mic on the market...but I've read articles where other people have had some success using it?

I'm sort of at a loss. I want loud, clean, transparent and punchy vocals without all the noise.

Any Ideas? Please don't hold back, because I am fairly new to trying to get this type of sound...on my older stuff..I just used my 58 and didn't have these problems. Condenser mics seem a bit foreign to me now.

On a side note:I just purchased a Shure KSM27 online and will be receiving it soon..and I hope it has a lower noise to gain ratio...but the problem could just be my ignorance in the world of Condenser Mics. Thought this would be easier.

[albee1952]

Self noise and ambient noise could both be to blame. I have to shut the fan off that feeds HVAC to my vocal booth for quiet to average singers. I usually keep the pop filter and singer within 4 inches of the mic. This gets a rounder bottom(proximity effect) and allows me to run the gain lower and still get good level. The KSM27 should be more quiet so that will help(or at least help you decide if it was the mic). When you foamed all the "proper places to prevent echo", did you include the ceiling? When you use the Eureka, don't over-compress. One thing that can cause is, more background noise in between singing parts.

[Murt]

The varying degrees of gain in your signal chain could be contributing.
Try bringing up the input gain on the MBox and reducing it on the mic pre.
Don't let the gain get too hot with any single piece of the chain. I'm not familiar with the Samson but I do know the Presonus is a decent bit of kit and considering you're getting better results with the 58.....the Samson could be the culprit. Is there a pad on the Samson? If so try it with the pad in and out.

[Numi]

Originally Posted by Murt

The varying degrees of gain in your signal chain could be contributing.

I wish that were the case, but I am connecting the Eureka via:SPDIF cable that connects the A/D converter upgrade I installed on the Eureka. So the gain is coming completely from the Eureka.

I have a feeling it might just be the mic, and so I am going to try singing 4 inches from mic with and pop filter using the KSM27 like recommended as soon as I get it.

Now, I can connect the the Eureka with a TRS cable to the Aux in on the Mbox 2 pro(which would be either input 3 or 4), and adjust the gain on both the preamp and the mbox? Would that be the better way of doing it? That would give me extra gain from the Mbox 2 that I could adjust...rather then completely depending on the gain of the Eureka.

From what I understand though, is that it is better to run the preamp to the SPDIF(of the mbox)...so that is what I have been doing. I just connect the SPDIF output of the Eureka to the SPDIF input of the mbox and sync to SPDIF under the hardware tab.

Now when I connect my guitar directly into the front instrument jack of the Eureka it sounds fantastic..and can get the gain extremely high...long before there is any noise what so ever. So high as a matter of fact, that I usually don't have to push the Eureka to much, to get a nice recording level. The only time I get all this airy, ambient noise/hiss almost..is when I use the Samson CO3.

I am going to try a little test, and try tracking straight from the mbox 2 pro preamps and see what that sounds like...then from the Eureka and ART MP without any compression or EQ and see what that sounds like side by side.

So when I finally get the KSM27 and if it makes that big of a difference, it will change the way I perceive the quality difference of condenser mics. For now, I've only used the standard Shure Mics for all my recording purposes, the main reason I bought the Samson was to have an entry product into the condenser mic world...and to have it to do vocal takes with. I thought it sounded pretty good at the music store when I had them connect to a PA system and I demo'd it. It will be interesting to hear the difference between these two brands, when the other arrives.

Another thought, is to use the line in on input 1 on the Mbox 2 pro as well..that has a line in switch on front, and I can connect it via TRS cable. Maybe I will try all these methods in a blank project and see which one sounds the best..and if all of them sound the same with this mic, I can only conclude that this Model has a high noise to gain ratio. Making it not the best mic to do really hot, transparent and noiseless vocals...unless I am doing something wrong.

[SlamminSam]

No expert here, but if you're used to the SM58, my guess is you're running into ambient sound from a much more sensitive condensor. I'm not sure of the quality of the Samson mic, though. Has the KSM27 shown up? Was it any better?

You can also try recording everything at lower levels. -4 to -6 might be too hot depending on the scale you're talking about.

[Keybeeetsss]

Originally Posted by SlamminSam

No expert here, but if you're used to the SM58, my guess is you're running into ambient sound from a much more sensitive condensor.

that could definitely, & really i'd say, IS definitely the case...

[paulmitch]

Condenser Mic connected to the Pesonus Eureka(Fairly Hot to be at decent distance from the mic)

How far away are you singing?

I usually keep the pop filter and singer within 4 inches of the mic.

If you're this close, you shouldn't need to crank your gain...

[DJ Hellfire]

I know this thread is pretty old, but has anyone ever solved this? I have this same issue with my eureka via spdif to my mbox2. But I have a c214, so I don't think it's the mic. It doesn't sound like ambient noise at all. Just sounds lime static/hiss.

[paulreed]

I have 2 eureka's and they are plenty quiet, I don't use them for vox all that much but they sound pretty good with a KSM44 and a U87, not as nice as the Avalon 737, but certainly no noise like you are hearing. I use them with spdif output into a 002R. I have been singing into the KSM44 the past few days and putting it above my mouth pointing downward. I have seen this done before but never really tried....I have ALLOT of siblance in my voice and putting the mic off axis seemed to help, also in my case the KSM44 seems to be much flatter than the U87ai which can be a bit bright.

I think you will be much happier with the Sure mic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[1ace1]

Originally Posted by Numi

I wish that were the case, but I am connecting the Eureka via:SPDIF cable that connects the A/D converter upgrade I installed on the Eureka.

You probably are but.....

Are you using proper Coaxil cable? Rather than a standard cable you find with most RCA connectors?

A:)