riding the faders /automation

[Litemup]

how is it done. to me it sounds like if u hear the vocal is too loud by the time u pull the fader down woundt u be ahead of where u want to be.

[Stig Eliassen]

Counter question - does PT only allow you to listen through a region once?

• start playback, and let it roll for as long as you find appropriate (1-2 sentences, half a verse, a verse, etc...)
• LISTEN
• switch to auto touch or latch mode
• now that you know what to fix from step #2, you can ride the fader(s)

I recommend writing automation after establishing a good, static mix.

[flommer]

Originally Posted by PT Lover

Counter question - does PT only allow you to listen through a region once?

• start playback, and let it roll for as long as you find appropriate (1-2 sentences, half a verse, a verse, etc...)
• LISTEN
• switch to auto touch or latch mode
• now that you know what to fix from step #2, you can ride the fader(s)

I recommend writing automation after establishing a good, static mix.

I've always kind of wondered about this, as it relates to the "good old days"..

If you are using tape and going back and forth, how quickly does any deterioration develop in the tape signal? I'm thinking for complicated mixes, many passes might have been required to get things right.. I realize that those guys had to be willing to commit earlier in the process..

Just curious..

[albee1952]

I just select Volume to show on the edit window and use the mouse to add breakpoints and drag the volume line up/down as needed. Its actually quite fast and efficient, once you get used to it. Or, if i see a small waveform where it sounds too low, I will use the AudioSuite GAIN plugin to raise that region(sometimes its a word, a phrase or a whole line). I also use the AudioSuite GAIN plugin to soften breathing sounds(but usually leave them in as it sounds un-natural with no breath sounds).

[Stig Eliassen]

If you are using tape and going back and forth, how quickly does any deterioration develop in the tape signal?

Interesting question, and one I cannot answer. I did start out recording and mixing on a Fostex 4-tracker, and had to do numerous mixdowns following a "to-do-list" before satisfied, but I didn't notice any loss in quality. The sound pretty much sucked from start to finish.

[O.G. Killa]

Originally Posted by Litemup

how is it done. to me it sounds like if u hear the vocal is too loud by the time u pull the fader down woundt u be ahead of where u want to be.

You also have to remember which tool is the right one for the job. Trying to grab a really fast transient attack on a channel is NOT traditionally the job of the fader. That's what a compressor is for.

So, try this... As PT lover recommended get a pretty good static/"Rough" mix going without any automation. As you are doing this, make mental or pen-and-paper notes as to things that need to be "tweaked". For example, at the beginning of a verse, the vocal might feel like it has too much reverb until the band kicks in for the prechorus... The guitar solo might be a little quiet to start but ends up at the right level after a few bars. The bass guitar might need to come up a notch or two when the chorus hits. There is a long delay on the vocals you want to turn on for certain words but leave off most of the time...etc..

After the rough mix is setup. You can set automation to Write, latch or touch. Start playing from the top of the song and start making some of the moves mentioned above. The good this about this, is you are adjusting the level by ear AS the song plays. The first pass might feel like a little too much, or not enough, so you do it again. And you can then respond to other things you are hearing in real time as the mix plays. For example riding the rhythm guitars or bass tracks slightly throughout the song. Or one of my favorites to do for movie trailer music, push the big drum hit accents (taikos, bass drums, etc) up and then pull them back down so the tails are out of the way. Makes the mix even more dynamic.

The possibilities are endless. Just play around and have fun!

[Murt]

Originally Posted by Litemup

how is it done. to me it sounds like if u hear the vocal is too loud by the time u pull the fader down woundt u be ahead of where u want to be.

Good question. Of course if you're in mixing mode then ideally you would do a number of 'passes', i.e listen to the song the whole way through a number of times until you get a feel for where you think the levels should be (you're a compressor in human form). By the time you get to the third pass you should be there. I then use the same technique as albee for fine tuning the level. I keep the GAIN plugin at the top of my Audiosuite plugins list because it gets a lot of use.

[Litemup]

thanks all im going to try these tricks until i find the one(s) for me

[ultrasonic]

Originally Posted by flommer

I've always kind of wondered about this, as it relates to the "good old days"..

If you are using tape and going back and forth, how quickly does any deterioration develop in the tape signal? I'm thinking for complicated mixes, many passes might have been required to get things right.
...

Engineers (myself included) would sometimes track things on analog tape with a little more high end, in expectation that by the time you start mixing some of the high frequency response would be lost. Over the long term things come back a little softer and with a little less top.

It was really only a problem on intensive "mutt lange" style productions that would really get worked over on the way to mixdown. It really bothered some guys, but most people just dealt with it because that was the state of the art at the time. On the other hand, digital audio, whether on linear tape, helical scan tape, or hard drive, would sound pretty much the same the on the 100th playback as it did on the 1st playback. Even though there is degradation of the recorded signal, error correction pretty much restores the "correct" numbers, or some facsimile thereof.

So then, instead of hearing a slight loss of high freq over the course of a project, you might detect an increase in the anomalies caused by more and more error correction. Until one day-- you might hear nothing. The error correction algorithms might not be able to keep up with the effects of entropy and you don't hear ANYTHING play back. Disconcerting, to say the least, but that's the state of the art.

[musicalavtech]

Originally Posted by Litemup

how is it done. to me it sounds like if u hear the vocal is too loud by the time u pull the fader down woundt u be ahead of where u want to be.

Don't know if this would work, but if you were consistently late working the faders, perhaps you could nudge the automation data back the same amount that you were late.