PT 2022 release?

[LDS]

Originally Posted by deanrichard

Yours is the flawed logic.

Nah, it is called professionalism. We don't know the programmers Avid uses from a bar of soap. You have no idea of their skills. You have no idea of the constraints and pressures they are put under to deliver. For all we know, they are immensely better programmers than you ever have been, delivering twice the work in half the amount of time as dictated by Avid or their direct employers.

Giving people the benefit of the doubt isn't 'flawed logic'. Particularly when those people are now fighting for their existence. Stop being an *******. Learn to punch up... not down. You know damn well that professional environments and professional work is never built on ideals. It is built on hard slog and and more often than not, compromise.

[arche3]

But protools has had the same issues for years. Before war country programmers.

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[Carl Lie]

To me PT feels bloated. There are versions that crush it and 6 months later not so much.

It will be awesome when we get PT and AAX plugins running on Apple's ARM architecture but to me it's likely we will not see much gain (I'm guessing 20 percent power gain tops though happy to be wrong).

I can and will wait. World events can happen anywhere at any time so I'm not sure I'd fault Avid for using programmers in the Ukraine. I do fault them for making a system that feels inefficient to me (except when using HDx).

Perhaps a year from now we'll all be happy again....

C

[Sardi]

Originally Posted by Carl Lie

It will be awesome when we get PT and AAX plugins running on Apple's ARM architecture but to me it's likely we will not see much gain (I'm guessing 20 percent power gain tops though happy to be wrong).

Yeah, like the rewrite to 64bit where everyone expected the codebase to be brand new, yet we still had the same bugs from prior years.


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[LDS]

Originally Posted by arche3

But protools has had the same issues for years. Before war country programmers.

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Precisely. Who is ultimately to blame for that? We are making assumptions on how skilled or unskilled the programmers are, when really... Avid has been the common fact here the whole time. The same Avid that has expressed a desire to perpetually squeeze more and more money out of its end-users for comparatively less and less. There is absolutely no reason to believe that Avid wouldn't try and squeeze their programmers, regardless of whether they are in Ukraine or the USA, in exactly the same way. At the end of the day, Avid's business model isn't built on perfection... it is built on an endless development cycle.

[arche3]

Avid outsourcing software because US based programmers cost more. Nothing to do with skill. As soon as Avid bought digidesign is when all the issues started. Cost cutting penny pinching. Replacing the people who wrote and understood the software. That's why we can't have nice things.

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[deanrichard]

First, this may have nothing to do with Ukraine. Does anyone here know for a fact that the current project team is located there? There should have been an announcement, if so. I haven't followed Avid corporate announcements over the last couple of years, but the last announcement that I saw (a few years ago) was they had moved the outsourcing to Poland. (Can't remember the previous country.) If they moved it to Ukraine it would be the third (or more) different outsourced group working on the code since the 64-bit version was introduced.

As for the state of PT code, it speaks for itself. You can give engineers the benefit of the doubt, but the final marketed product is simply what it is. No, I don't know who the engineers are or the obstacles they faced. But I've worked on software projects for decades, and even from the outside you can tell the PT code base is a mess, for all the reasons I mentioned. And it's public knowledge that Avid has used at least two different outsourced project teams over the last few years - they've announced it. Moving a codebase between project teams is not ideal.

What you have construed as "punching down" is simply offering the observations of my experience with outsourcing, which is not insignificant. I would call it being realistic. But your comments about me were definitely "punching down" since you know nothing of me or my experience.

Originally Posted by LDS

Nah, it is called professionalism. We don't know the programmers Avid uses from a bar of soap. You have no idea of their skills. You have no idea of the constraints and pressures they are put under to deliver. For all we know, they are immensely better programmers than you ever have been, delivering twice the work in half the amount of time as dictated by Avid or their direct employers.

Giving people the benefit of the doubt isn't 'flawed logic'. Particularly when those people are now fighting for their existence. Stop being an *******. Learn to punch up... not down. You know damn well that professional environments and professional work is never built on ideals. It is built on hard slog and and more often than not, compromise.

[BScout]

Originally Posted by arche3

As soon as Avid bought digidesign is when all the issues started. Cost cutting penny pinching. Replacing the people who wrote and understood the software.

You mean 1994?

Unless you were on Pro Tools 2.5 or earlier, you have never been on Pro Tools without Avid. Just because Avid didn't replace the Digidesign brand with Avid way back then, doesn't mean it wasn't completely under Avid since then. Pro Tools 3 was developed under Avid.

[Eric Lambert]

Originally Posted by deanrichard

What you have construed as "punching down" is simply offering the observations of my experience with outsourcing

Experience that may or may not be parallel to Avid's, and observation which lacks definition. It's useful to read these words related to your experience, but their relevance to Avid/Ukraine/ProTools isn't being displayed or confirmed here, so they're just one person's experiences.

[noiseboyuk]

Originally Posted by deanrichard

First, this may have nothing to do with Ukraine. Does anyone here know for a fact that the current project team is located there? There should have been an announcement, if so. I haven't followed Avid corporate announcements over the last couple of years, but the last announcement that I saw (a few years ago) was they had moved the outsourcing to Poland. (Can't remember the previous country.) If they moved it to Ukraine it would be the third (or more) different outsourced group working on the code since the 64-bit version was introduced.

Quite. It's astonishing to me that people are still confidently saying "come on, there's a war on" as if any apprehension or misgiving can be brushed away, when we have no statements at all from Avid on where the development team are or what impact the war is or isn't having.

However. I won't unpick who said what where, but there have been a number of really nasty posts casting aspersions on the skills or otherwise of a nation that is being invaded and upon whom war crimes are being committed daily. That really does seem to be punching down. Yes Ukraine, we stand with you as you are being slaughtered even though your workers are all terrible and taking jobs from good unionized Americans.

As for the general antagonism towards Avid, that feels half fair and half unfair. We pay $400 per year for ongoing development. It is their responsibility to develop. If there are mitigating circumstances they need to say so, and recompense accordingly. On that score, Avid are behaving extremely badly. On the other hand, I see lots of generalised "old buggy code" type comments that feel much more spurious. I use other DAWs, and Pro Tools remains the most solid and reliable. Yes they are behind on some significant features, yes there are occasional things that slip through that take too long to resolve but overall PT is a great bit of software.

It's hard to take a nuanced stand on anything in today's world, things tend to either be the best or the worst. In Avid we see both. But with each passing day, their silence regarding their core business relationship with customers feels ever more inexcusable.