Change of work flow. . . .

[Soundtrack2life]

Over the weekend I started sketching out a song to go into production with and instead of doing it in Pro Tools I decided to do it in Logic 8. I have to admit for the first time I felt like the DAW didn't get in the way of the creativity. With both my PT HD2 & LE systems I have issues with VI's i.e. Kontact, BFD2 & etc. . . . . . then the deciding factor was that I was working outside of my studio on my MacBook Pro. I wanted to use BFD2 to add some reference drum tracks and I couldn't even get PT to play back. I changed buffers etc to try and get it to play. . . . . nada. In Logic it worked without a hitch. . . even playing back through my Mbox Pro & the internal speakers! I loved the experience so much I am going to spring for the Logic 9 upgrade. With all that said I will still do my final recording, editing and mixing in Pro Tools! But IMO MIDI, VI's & loops for quickly getting an idea together in Logic hands down was a much better experience then with Pro Tools. My $.02
Joe

[SWSPHX]

I have really been struggling with this. I have invested 100g's when you factor the icon into my HD system and honestly I am ready to hock the 192s for some Apogees and go Logic. I am so fed up with AVID's crappy service and need to use us for free beta testing.

However, PT is still considered by many to be the "Industry Standard." I know I have had my share of off the street clients who came because it "had to be Pro Tools." Even though I KNOW its not the DAW but the hardware, converters, mics and pres, and plug-ins that make the sound. (And of course the players and mixing ability of the engineer.) They don't. So I still might have more business because I use PT. And frankly I have gotten so fast at PT I just don't want to invest the time in learning a new program.

But...The proverbial camal's back is almost broken.

[WernerF]

You need to investigate the applications that run VI's and stream them into P Tools. Look into Plogue Bidule and VE Pro. Your problems will go away.

[John_Toolbox]

+1 - separate the VI's from Pro Tools and life will be good. Pro Tools is a great mixing and editing program, but it simply isn't cutting edge in the way it handles VI's and MIDI.

[SWSPHX]

I dont use any VI's. I used to use Mach 5 v2 but that no longer works as a plug in in PT8--another annoyance. Not a big midi person.

[GS-DK]

And using Bounce in Place in Logic and then OMF makes it's SO easy to transfer all your stuff to ProTools for edit and mix.

I have a better idea-workflow in Logic and the final work I do in ProTools.

[Hanswurstlsepp]

I'm a "since ever" LOGIC user (started with Atari & Notator, then changed to Quadra 650, then changed to PPC, G4, G5, Intel etc. pp.).

I'm using LogicPro9 on a separate Mac, either synced to PT-Mac viaMTC or just for using Logic's VIs.

I cannot remember when I had the last crash with Logic. It is rock solid with VIs. I'm using Logic & Mainstage also for performing live. It's awesome !

I have at least one crash per day with PT....and yes...I tripple checked PlugInVersions, deleting prefs all day AND repairing disc permissions all day, clock is NOT set to 24 hour, bluetooth is off, etc. pp. blah blah.

I'm using VIs like Battery and Structure a lot in PT. But as soon as it's coming to serious VI-editing & load, PT tends to crash sooner or later.
This might be when opening a PlugIn-GUI (like Oxford EQ which is definetely no VI) or when changing patches within structure. This is even if PT uses less than 2 Gig RAM.
I'm always watching the ActivityMonitor.

After a Mac-restart PT will always work again. But for how long, depends on how much VIs you try to change/instanciate/change patches etc.
So the crashes are so far not reproducable for me. But I'm trying hard to get some reproducable crashes with VIs to help the Avid guys in tracking it down.

My experience is, that as long as one uses "not too much" VIs within PT it's *kind of* stable. But I highly suggest to use apps like ViennaEnsemblePro to outsource VIs. .... or use Logic9 or Mainstage on a separate Mac !

I think there are some very serious and mysterious bugs in PT concerning VIs and I also think as long as PT's code won't be seriously re-written so that VIs will work well - and as long PT aint a 64bit app - it won't get better.

It's very frustrating sometimes !

[studiojimi]

Originally Posted by SWSPHX

I have really been struggling with this. I have invested 100g's when you factor the icon into my HD system and honestly I am ready to hock the 192s for some Apogees and go Logic. I am so fed up with AVID's crappy service and need to use us for free beta testing.

oy yeah...free beta testing...non mentioned enough around here

our beta testing must not be working hun?

if you switch to logic though your performances better be good enough to not need world class editing skills as you won't get that from logic IMO

hold fast...let the inevitable happen.

if AVID goes down...they'll be acquired hopefully by someone who "gets it"

and understand that the people MUST be satisfied

good luck with whatever you choose to do

sometimes the best thing to do is hold fast

these appear to be "those times"

in time well look back on "these time" and remind each other that

after all calamities...

(floods, fires, famines, lucust, darkness...name yours)

enlightenment.... ie better times "come to pass."

[Soundtrack2life]

The funny part is I started with Atari & Notator back in the 80's and FWIW I still have the Atari ST Mega2 in storage with the full blown out Notator package. Every so often I pull it out and fire it up for kicks. Then I was on PC for many years and when Apple bought out Emagic I bailed on Logic. A few years ago I switched to all Mac's and I did buy Logic actually right before PT LE & HD. But I never used it. . . . . . till now. Its like getting back together with an old flame. . . . LOL Just to make it clear I have zero intentions of dumping PT for Logic!!!! I just like the creative work flow in Logic. . . . but love editing and mixing in PT! So I have no issues with using both programs to get from point A to point B!
Joe

[Marsdy]

Having just ditched Logic after 14 years I'm glad to see the back of it.

IMO, it has become a dog's dinner of an app, riddled with inconsistencies, badly implemented features and bugs that make it through release after release.

Basic audio editing is slow and clunky as hell by comparison. Crossfading audio in Logic is an embarrassing joke. Have you seen the "Take" functionality in Logic? There is SO much in Logic that needs MAJOR streamlining for prime time usage it isn't true.

Logic is historically a MIDI app that got audio added and it shows.

People talk about MIDI editing being superior in Logic but I don't buy that so much since PT8. Where are the multiple controller lanes in Logic's MIDI editor for example? And try selecting controller events and copying or moving them.... Or try editing or moving them in Hyper Edit or the Event Editor and then see the the mess you've got when you go back into the piano roll editor.

Try turning off a loop in Logic's Arrange window. The loop stops but you can still see it's graphic representation until you force a redraw of the window. That got through release after release. The unwanted resizing of the hyper edit pane to maximum size in the MIDI editor that appeared in version 6. I spoke to a Logic guy at the time about it. He said "oh yeah I can see that we'll fix it." It took them until version 9!!!! There was a bug where a recalling a Screenset wouldn't open the MIDI editor when it should. That was a total deal breaker for many who instantly had to refer to the previous version. Talk about workflow destruction!

I could go on forever with this but won't....

My point is... If you can make Logic work for you great but the grass is NOT greener over in Logic land, it's a rather smelly shade of brown if you ask me!!! I'd far rather work around PT's inferior VI efficiency and the odd functional advantage that Logic has over PT.