Songs Sound Different When Exported

[thephatboi]

Ok, I am going to be another "conspiracy theory" advocate. I am a very experienced PT HD user (HD3 7.4.xx, OSX 10.4.9, G5 dual 2gig) and I when I run out of dsp I sometimes want to record a track or two with all the plugins and effects on it to another track or bounce to disk and re-import, then shut off the original track to create some new processing power. I am sorry but I ALWAYS hear a difference between the original "live" running track with plugs and fx and the new recorded to new track or bounced/imported track. The new tracks always sound like they lost something, very subtle but non-engineers can hear it. I am of course very sure that no sample rate conversion or dithering is going on. This is really a problem for me and would like to hear if others have this prob and from Digi, is this just an issue with going through a bus changing the sound ever so slightly??? I think so, call me a heretic but I hear it and i am not a wanker. Looking forward to hearing more about this...any work arounds?? Should I dig out my dat player and record to it (being sarcastic but what's up with this?) Thanks in advance.

[thephatboi]

PS. Yes I am importing tracks back into PT with no dithering or SRC and listening next to the original track(s) through the same monitors (which are fantastic) same room (which is great) same everything. Looking forward to hearing from all the people who say their can't possibly be a difference.....

[peppertree]

Most likely your problem is in the time domain: when you bounce back into the session your timing offsets are likely changed vs. what you were monitoring before. A simple nulling test ought to make things clear.

[thephatboi]

No this has nothing to do with timing, it has to do with either the Protools mixer changing the sound (going through a bus) or the process of bouncing or recording to another track in Protools changes the sound. If you reimport it at the same sample rate and bit depth you will hear it. I am not dreaming, I have two Grammy award winning engineers who agree with me; they hear it and NEVER record through plugs or bounce down individual tracks to conserve dsp unless absolutely necessary and then only on tracks of lesser importance. I would really like a response from digi on this. It is a real issue. If you guys take a minute to listen rather than assuming it can't possibly be different you will hear it. I have a drummer listening to my mix and HE hears it. come on. My system is perfect, my friend's systems are fine. Digi?

[peppertree]

The fact that you don't understand what a nulling test is means that you need to call a real engineer for assistance.

[DigiTechSupt]

Originally Posted by thephatboi

No this has nothing to do with timing, it has to do with either the Protools mixer changing the sound (going through a bus) or the process of bouncing or recording to another track in Protools changes the sound. If you reimport it at the same sample rate and bit depth you will hear it. I am not dreaming, I have two Grammy award winning engineers who agree with me; they hear it and NEVER record through plugs or bounce down individual tracks to conserve dsp unless absolutely necessary and then only on tracks of lesser importance. I would really like a response from digi on this. It is a real issue. If you guys take a minute to listen rather than assuming it can't possibly be different you will hear it. I have a drummer listening to my mix and HE hears it. come on. My system is perfect, my friend's systems are fine. Digi?

First, do the null test - do they null? That will tell the tale absolutely, positively without question. Any discussion without a null test is completely moot.

Second - any difference you're hearing is not an issue with Pro Tools. There are several things that could cause a perceived difference - the biggest being volume levels - even a slight change can make something sound different. If it's a little lower level it will be perceived as being 'duller'.

[endling09]

HEADLINE: CHECK YOUR INTERFACE!!!!

I have been posting up on a bunch of forums about this, because I just had this issue, and it was driving me nuts. Like, literally crazy. I would love to save someone else the trouble if at all possible. I'm finishing up a project and have been in the mixdown phase. The only thing more disheartening than your exported mix not sounding right is your 50th exported mix not sounding right after your 50th attempt to fix the issue to no avail. I was on the verge of quitting, ready to just go back to hard disk recording and say screw DAW recording. I had had other substantial issues before, too, so after a certain number of rounds of doing more tinkering with the software than recording, you start to lose it a little.

I'll cut to the chase- it was my interface. I've been using an Audient iD14 interface for use with the DAW for the last few years. I had had some other issues- crackling, sound cutting out, etc. and kept trying to figure out what it was. Then I tried exporting the mix of this latest project out, and it sounded like the bass was practically gone, and the mids were seriously compromised too. The mix sounded high and tinny- on the same headphones I had just used to mix in the DAW. I tried everything to fix it- I checked my sample and bit rate (setting them to 44.1 kHz and 16 bits), turning the dithering on and off, turning the plugins off and just exporting the raw files, exporting with real-time processing, uninstalling the DAW and reinstalling, uninstalling and reinstalling my interface drivers- I tried basically everything. Nothing worked, and I was hitting the wall after something like 12 hours of banging my face up against it.

I went into Guitar Center and spoke to a very nice associate and fellow engineer Miguel, who told me that my interface and its drivers might be outdated. I bought a new interface from him then and there, took it home, plugged it in, and guys- I am so happy haha. My mix sounds exactly as it should when exported, the same as it does in the DAW.

Don't lose heart! If you can, try replacing your interface, even temporarily with an inexpensive one if need be. If that's not the issue, try some of the other things that I did and that have been mentioned in this thread and see if they work.

Cheers, and the best of recording to you!

[albee1952]

Also, a complete description of how everything is connected might turn up some possible problems. Describe everything in great detail(its impossible to give too much info). Maybe lay it out in a block diagram, upload that to some photo hosting site and link to it(sometimes screen captures get shrunk and become tough to decipher)

FWIW, I hear no difference between a mix from a PT session and the final bounced file played thru WMP, but, here is how audio is routed:
From Pro Tools: 192 interface>SPDIF out to Presonus Central Station>powered skprs.
From Windows)WMP): optical SPDIF out to Presonus Central Station