PT 7.4.2 confusion: Backups and root folder

[munit54]

I'm still a little confused about what PT does when you just do a simple backup. I have double backups of everything to 2 external FW drives.

I can copy a session folder to another drive, and I can see the copied audio file folder is complete with what it should contain. But then when I look at the disk allocation, it still says that the root folder is on the drive from which the copy was made.

This situation became a nightmare last Friday, when I was cleaning up my external back-up drives.

I had made copies of everything, backed-them up to both drives. I then eliminated the working sessions off my main session drive, feeling confident that everything was saved.

I then went back and checked the backup sessions, and noticed that many of the audio file folders were missing, and when I opened Pro Tools for this session, it said the files were missing. I looked at the disk allocation, and it said that the root folder was on my internal system drive, which I NEVER USE TO WRITE SESSION FILES. And I had just erased the session files from my working external FW drive.

So essentially 4 compositions gone forever. Also, I lost the original session files to one of my commercial CDs. Fortuantely, I had burned these session files to DVDs about 4 years ago, so that stuff was saved.

There doesn't seem to be any consistency in how backup files "backup." With earlier versions, you could just copy to another drive, and you'd be fine, with the correct root folder allocation on the correct drive.

with PT LE 7.4.2 I'm finding this not to be the case.

Questions:

1) Can you do bulk back-ups of Pro Tool Session folders just by copying to another HD?

2) Do you have to use "Copy session to" to make the backup have the correct root folder disk allocation?

3) Is there a fix for this in later versions higher than ver PT LE 7.4.2?

This has become a royal pain the ass. Enough to make me ditch Pro Tools.

thanks!

[DigiTechSupt]

This is how it works:

1. When you create a new session, it creates an audio files folder for that session. When you record in that session, all audio goes to that folder unless you specify otherwise in the disk allocation window.
2. Imported audio only is copied to that folder if you have it set to do so in Pro Tools preferences, otherwise it stays at it's original location.
3. Pro Tools stores information in it's session file with pointers to the locations of each audio file used in the sesssion.
4. If you drag and drop the session and audio files to a different drive the session file information about where those files will not change and will still references the original file location. The workaround for this when opening the session is to relink to the media at the new location.
5. Keep in mind that imported audio that was not copied to the audio files folder is still at it's original location, so be careful about trashing/deleting files outside of the audio files folder, as they may be referenced by a session.
6. If you want the session file to update it's pointers to the new location, you must use 'Save Copy In' and copy all audio files, including files referenced outside the audio files folder (see #5).

So, in answer to your questions:

1. Yes, you can, keeping in mind the caveats and conditions above.
2. Yes, though you can relink all media to the new location once you open the session if you used the method you mention in #1.
3. There is no fix needed, as there's nothing broken. Proper file maintenance is still something you have to pay attention to.

[DigiTechSupt]

And, fwiw, no application handles file maintenance for you. I use other apps daily and they all have somewhat similar methods of file handling.

[munit54]

Originally Posted by DigiTechSupt

This is how it works:

1. When you create a new session, it creates an audio files folder for that session. When you record in that session, all audio goes to that folder unless you specify otherwise in the disk allocation window.
2. Imported audio only is copied to that folder if you have it set to do so in Pro Tools preferences, otherwise it stays at it's original location.
3. Pro Tools stores information in it's session file with pointers to the locations of each audio file used in the sesssion.
4. If you drag and drop the session and audio files to a different drive the session file information about where those files will not change and will still references the original file location. The workaround for this when opening the session is to relink to the media at the new location.
5. Keep in mind that imported audio that was not copied to the audio files folder is still at it's original location, so be careful about trashing/deleting files outside of the audio files folder, as they may be referenced by a session.
6. If you want the session file to update it's pointers to the new location, you must use 'Save Copy In' and copy all audio files, including files referenced outside the audio files folder (see #5).

So, in answer to your questions:

1. Yes, you can, keeping in mind the caveats and conditions above.
2. Yes, though you can relink all media to the new location once you open the session if you used the method you mention in #1.
3. There is no fix needed, as there's nothing broken. Proper file maintenance is still something you have to pay attention to.

I truly appreciate this response!! This should be required reading for anyone using Pro Tools.

However, the disk allocation feature is somewhat flakey. you have the option to change the root folder location, which i do. The audio file folder contains the right audio files, and the song plays from the selected HD, but the disk allocation feature still indicates that the root folder is on my internal system drive. I checked my internal system drive, and those files are no where to be found. AND, I've never recorded any PT file to my internal system HD.

I really do think that a simple change in programming could make backing up to an external drive a lot simpler than using the 'Save Copy In' feature.

But none the less, your response really does help. Thanks a bunch!!

[DigiTechSupt]

However, the disk allocation feature is somewhat flakey. you have the option to change the root folder location, which i do. The audio file folder contains the right audio files, and the song plays from the selected HD, but the disk allocation feature still indicates that the root folder is on my internal system drive. I checked my internal system drive, and those files are no where to be found. AND, I've never recorded any PT file to my internal system HD.

Can you give us a complete, concrete description of what you're seeing? I mean, from creation of the session on up?

I think there may be some confusion here - the Disk Allocation window only selects the drive that you record to, not the drive the audio files play back from, though they are related. Obviously if you set a track to record to drive A, then it will also play back from that drive unless you change it by using the relink window to link the region in the edit window to an audio file in a different location.

Most likely the reason the disk allocation window shows the root folder as being on your internal drive is that you're using a session template that was created on the internal drive. If that's not the case, can you give us more info about your sessions and how you're creating them, as well as your system profile?

[munit54]

Originally Posted by DigiTechSupt

Can you give us a complete, concrete description of what you're seeing? I mean, from creation of the session on up?

I think there may be some confusion here - the Disk Allocation window only selects the drive that you record to, not the drive the audio files play back from, though they are related. Obviously if you set a track to record to drive A, then it will also play back from that drive unless you change it by using the relink window to link the region in the edit window to an audio file in a different location.

Most likely the reason the disk allocation window shows the root folder as being on your internal drive is that you're using a session template that was created on the internal drive. If that's not the case, can you give us more info about your sessions and how you're creating them, as well as your system profile?

Hi and thanks for the response. I think that about 2 years ago, I made a bunch of templates, and sort of carried them through to the external drive that I write to. I think from what you said, and from what I can remember, I may have done that initial session on my internal drive, or maybe just made a bunch of templates, on my internal drive, and then copied them to my working FW drive.

I've been going through the important stuff, and doing the "copy session in". From your comments and others, I think I've got the problem solved.

I just installed a SATA internal drive on my Mac Pro to now serve as what I write and record to. That's this whole thing got started. But I've just about got everything cleaned up.

I really appreciate your response!!

Thanx again.

[DigiTechSupt]

I made a bunch of templates,

That's the 'problem' - when you make templates, they store the info about where the session was created and it's root folder and such. You have to make sure that, when using a template, you check all that before diving in. Newer versions of Pro Tools prevent you from using a template directly and should make you re-save it (thus creating a new root audio folder and disk allocation) when you open one.

[kingniels]

In addition to this, is it possible to ALWAYS copy a file? I use drag & drop alot, to import files from for example the desktop into a session. Most of the time, it's added, not copied.

Is it possible to set this somewhere? Never found it. If not, maybe a good new feature in next updates? Also, in the Import Audio window it would be great to have the option to set a default selection (copy instead of add)

That would prevent a lot of location problems.

I'm currently on HD 7.1 on a mac, planning an upgrade to HD 8.

[DigiTechSupt]

In addition to this, is it possible to ALWAYS copy a file? I use drag & drop alot, to import files from for example the desktop into a session. Most of the time, it's added, not copied.

Setup>Preferences>Processing - check the option for 'Automatically Copy Files on Import'.

[Gothboy]

I'm glad this was brought up. I've noticed that the 2 Melodyne folders(In and out) in my Audio folder arent copied when I do a "Save copy to" and I've been manually dragging them to the copy. Why doesn't PT copy these 2 folders automatically since they reside in the Audio folder??