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  #21  
Old 05-25-2004, 04:35 PM
Dopamine Dopamine is offline
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Default Re: 002R Is An Upgrade?

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Glenn G, I'm with you on this one, difference is I didn't upgrade to a 002 or 002r, I still have my 001 and it simply rocks, all it does is feed a lightpipe into Protools for me........oh, and it lets me launch Protools too, yipeee!

What I find infuriating is that after all the time I invested in learning the software and making it second nature in my workflow, the idea of having to learn another DAW's software just so that I can upgrade without buying into the 002 scam, drives me nuts.

Let alone the countless people I've turned onto Protools.

Why should I be forced to "JUMP SHIP" or buy a 002r if all I want is a few new features in the software. I had nightmares about 6.4 being buggy as hell and not being able to get the next fixes.

Turns out at least Digi had the descency to abandon me with a funtional DAW. Thanks.

I'm going to make do with the 001 untill a 003 or something comes out. I don't have time to fuss around looking for menus and windows in another application. I always said "it's all about Protools software, I could care less about their "fancy" hardware." None of the pre's or converters I use are Digidesign made...none, so why should I spend $800 to $1000 on stuff I already have? Makes no sence at all.

But you gotta love PT
Well said. My sentiments exactly.
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  #22  
Old 05-25-2004, 05:02 PM
where02190 where02190 is offline
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Default Re: 002R Is An Upgrade?

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Our reasons to be looking into other DAWs is for longevity in support of curent software and hardware.
Nick,

Have you looked into Radar? Not exactly cheap, but they're very well known for some of the best support and customer service in the business...not to mention top-notch converters and an analog-style interface. Seems like it might be a good fit for you guys.
We considered a Radar system, but opted for the Mackie HDR 24/96, which is our main machine. I've worked on Radar, and indeed it is very nice, but also over 2x the price of the HDR. (at the time we purchased 3 yrs ago it was over 3x the cost of the HDR)

The Radar converters are fantastic, definitely the cream of the crop in the stand alone HD recorder world, however, the HDR's AIO-8 ADDA converters are also extremely good, and widely accepted in the industry. (They are the same as used in the D8B console.) Furthermore, the pre-sale relationship we developed with Mackie has stayed true the course, and infact grew to allow us to become beta testers of other Mackie products, as well as beta versions of upgrades for the HDR, including the HDR Pro OS and the BIOS upgrade, which increases the drive limitation from 32 gb to 120gb. For our participation, we get all this stuff from Mackie for free, a very nice perc indeed.

The HDR (and the two MDR's we have for remote recording) have been absolutely rock solid. we've never had 1 minute of lost time in over 3 yrs.

The PT rig is for additional tracks, uping our count to 56, and putting the PT name on the inventory. You'd be amazed at the number of clients who come here because we have Protools, and it never gets used except for mixdown. we have 2 i/o fo Apogee converters for the 001, using them for the PT track playback(which are always secondary tracks) and record from the analog console mix buss. this setup also gives us the ability to do editing beyond the HDR (or Radar for that matter) capabilities, which (for either machine) is really glorified cut copy paste, fine for our needs, as we have a vast array of good to high end hardware dynamics and effects processors to select from. The Firedock system allows us to quickly move sessions from one of the MDR drives or the HDR into PT. They sync via MMC/MTC, and lock superbly. while I wouldn't split overheads or a stereo track between the two systems, we've done 2+ hour live shows on the two MDR's, and, using the HDR for one set of 24 and PT for the other, had no audible issues with sync.
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  #23  
Old 05-25-2004, 06:34 PM
El CaCa El CaCa is offline
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Default Re: 002R Is An Upgrade?

Yeah, I skipped on the 002 craze and bought a Trak2 and better mics...The 002 and 002R never really interested me...I really have used the hell out of the 001 and it's been really good to me. Sooner or later I'll have to "upgrade" but I'm holding out for a 003...And my hopes and dreams are.....

18 channels of digital connection

I dont need not damn digi mic pre's

Please...Then I'll upgrade...I swear!
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  #24  
Old 05-25-2004, 07:13 PM
tele_player tele_player is offline
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Default Re: 002R Is An Upgrade?

I wondered when he'd get around to plugging the FireDock.
Gosh, those are some high prices for commodity stuff.
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  #25  
Old 05-25-2004, 08:35 PM
The Mighty Burner The Mighty Burner is offline
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Default Re: 002R Is An Upgrade?

I'm with you completely, Glenn.

I too felt pressured into the upgrade...a combination of the fear of not having adequate legacy support and not being able to keep up with software. I was unhappy with the price as well, and I too made the big mistake of not researching the 002r independently of the 002. I had accumulated a large amount of high quality plug-ins for OS9/PT5.x that are now useless (of course, I could have spent tons more money to upgrade all those plugs to OSX....more pressure). The only reason I've held on this long is that I am truly comfortable with PT, and I really do like it's interface, but the mounting unhappiness with Digidesign/Avid continues to build. They have for years been forcing the prosumer's hands to try and keep their upper end hardware products valuable. They have consistently denied the LE users software features and performance that is readily availble in comparable DAWs. In some cases, they have even REMOVED features in software updates. The SMPTE time code ruler has always been a major annoyance for me....there is no justifying charging and additional $1000.00 for features that are rountinely available in other DAWs and would also be easily implemented. They also continue to try and force their hardware to retain it's value by making all their prosumer hardware effectively function as "dongles"....ridiculous (I've been thinking about getting an audiomedia III card just to be able to run OS9/PT5). Just about every other platform allows you to use whatever third party hardware and software that you like. Oh yeah...software. Digi has made a habit of keeping their software from truly harnessing multi processor macs, especially plugs. AU and even VST plugs are far more effecient in my experience, and writing these plugs is open to most any knowledgable developer, novice or proffessional, so there are many more available plugs out there. I could go on and on....don't even get me started on MIDI.

I really think that Digi/Avid is in real trouble for the future if they don't come around. They dominated the industry for a decade and that is what has kept them in the game this long, but I think their business practices are catching up with them. Avid has done the same crap in the video market, and it has hurt them....can you say Final Cut?

In any event, this is all just venting for me. I'm committed to PT for various reasons and I plan to make the best of it. I've always loved the PT software interface and found it very intuitive, so I hope Digi eventually plays nice and starts to get on par with the rest of the market in terms of performance and compatibility.

Oohhh...that felt purdy good.

thoroughly purged,
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  #26  
Old 05-26-2004, 04:56 PM
Bhennies Bhennies is offline
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Default Re: 002R Is An Upgrade?

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Actually duty has everything to do with it since I make my living with this gear and so I felt it was necessary to keep it current while the upgrade offer was on the table.
Hmmm, I understand the pressure not to get left in the dust. However, if your system was stable and working for you, as a professional, I don't understand ditching it either. There is no mandate as an engineer that you "keep current" as regards the current gear offerings. On the contrary, the use of time tested and proven gear is generally taken as a sign of wisdom in the industry.

Leigh
For me, I needed a new computer- only two options worth while were the Powerbook and g5. Both cannot run the 001. Oh well.
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  #27  
Old 05-26-2004, 05:18 PM
Larryboy Larryboy is offline
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Default Re: 002R Is An Upgrade?

Just thought I'd chime in with my experience. I had the 001 and the AMIII. I traded in the AMIII for the 002R and then sold my 001 and have had no problems whatsoever with it. It sounded better than my 001 and while my system was very solid on the 001 until I added a Powercore card for Logic. Nothing worked right after adding the card, I searched and searched on the net, and finally got to talk to a salesperson who was familiar with the issue. 001+Powercore+0SX=no work. That was what drove me to the 002R, the fact that the Powercore was useless with my 001 (I have an MDD that is not OS9 compatable), and I'm so glad that I did switch. Better converters and Pres, better overall sound, better latency, works with a laptop. It's great working with softsynths which feel like real hardware synths when you play them. I couldn't do that with the 001. Do I want more? Of course I want more. Pads on the inputs, Grace designed Mic pres, SMUX or something similar, Tube emulation on the inputs, Apogee quality converters, 192K, etc. I'll always want more, always, but I think Digi did make a decent upgrade which helps me get my work done.
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