HD Native and Dante

[JCBigler]

Can you use HD Native to record via Dante (with the Dante Virtual Soundcard)?

We have a Yamaha CL5 which will run 64x64 channels of 24-bit/48kHz over Cat5e on a Gigabit Ethernet network.

I have to upgrade our Mac Pro and when I do that I'm considering getting an HD Native system with the Thunderbolt unit. I guess I wouldn't really have much use for the Omni I/O, but I'd put in the rack anyway. But it would be nice to use the Dante network to record all 64 channels at the same time (obviously, I can't use the normal Protools 11 for this because it tops out at 32 channels of input).

Otherwise I would have to use Nuendo Live to record all 64 channels for a show.

[JCBigler]

Sorry, posted this in the Windows forum. It should be in the Mac forum.

(I use PT on my personal Windows laptop, but this would be my work system which is a Mac Pro). Tagged for relocation.

[Peter Baird]

Good question. No idea.

My home setup (the Gypsy) is HDN with an 002R, so I downloaded DVS (have a license because of the big system on Arsenio). I know this doesn't prove much, but I installed DVS, set it for 64x64, started it, (without a Dante source) and then started PT10. DVS does indeed show up in the Playback Engine pulldown, and better yet in the I/O Setup all 64 channels of DVS are available. I'm thinking it might work for you.

I turned the Beast (my one-time Hackintosh) into a Windows machine (7) thinking that its main job would be to backup record the Mac Pro HDX|3 system (just the 64 channels dedicated for guest artists) so I installed Dante Virtual Soundcard on it. But of course in PT10 the ASIO driver will only see 32 of the 64 channels. I have Nuendo 4 on the same machine and it sees all 64 channels no problem.

Hoping Avid rewrites the ASIO driver.

Turns out that 11 is so stable on the big Mac Pro that I don't really need a backup, so the Beast now spends its time as the Dante system nanny running Dante Controller.

Good luck,
Peter

[Peter Baird]

Update:

I made an I/O template for DVS with 64 ins and outs and started a dummy session with 64 tracks. All channels map to their respective ins and outs and the tracks will drop into Input and Record Ready. I'm thinking you're good to go with the HDN idea.

Please tell me it was just a typo when you said you were using CAT5. All of the engineer types I know at Yamaha would recoil with terror if they knew you weren't using CAT6 for all the interconnects.

We have five CL desks and six 32 channel Rios on Arsenio. The Dante system allows us amazing flexibility between FOH, Monitors, and the music truck (me). I'm a big fan.

Peter

[JCBigler]

Thanks for the info on the HDN and Dante DVS. The guys over on the Pro Sound Web: Live Audio Board also confirmed that the DVS works fine as an ASIO or Core Audio interface for Protools. I guess my main quesiton was whether the DVS shows up as part of the Aggregate I/O in the Core Audio set up in PT HDN like it does with the regular Protools, of if you specifically had to only use the HD hardware.

So Basically, you buy an HD system like the HD Native Thunderbolt with Omni interface, and then you don't even have to use the Omni I/O that you just purchased, since it only has two mic inputs. And DVS gives you 64x64 (for $29).

Originally Posted by Peter Baird

Please tell me it was just a typo when you said you were using CAT5. All of the engineer types I know at Yamaha would recoil with terror if they knew you weren't using CAT6 for all the interconnects.

Per page 17 of the CL Series Owner's Manual, we are using shielded Cat5e (solid core at that):

Dante connectors
Used to connect to other Dante-compatible network
devices, such as an Rio3224-D I/O rack.
Use standard Ethernet cables with Neutrik EtherCon
CAT5e compatible RJ-45 plugs.

Also, the Yamaha Training staff confirmed in the CL User Training that shielded Cat5e is all that is required.

Are you actually using all five CL consoles on the same network? The specs from Yamaha say that you can only use up to four CL consoles on the same network.

[Peter Baird]

JC,

Yeah, I don't keep an HD I/O at home so I don't have any way to check if you can aggregate the DVS with another interface. I suppose I should try it with the 002R at some point and see if it explodes. I was just trying to demonstrate that PTHD with an HD|N card, regardless of whether a physical interface is even connected, can fully access all of DVS.

You got me on the manual, it's written right there. Yeah, I did the CL user training and networking seminars too. I just remember them stressing using CAT6 everywhere.

For Arsenio we have essentially three "nodes"--Monitors, FOH, and the music truck. Monitors has two CL5s and five Rio3224s, FOH has two CL5s, a CL3, and one Rio, and I have four Rednet 5s in the truck. Monitors and FOH each have two GigE switches, one for the Primary and one for the Secondary, and it's all CAT6 at each location. In the Music Truck I just have one GigE switch as the Rednets are Primary-only devices. Each switch has GBIC fiber modules, and the runs between each "node" are fiber (the one from FOH to the truck is just over 300' long, Monitors to FOH just slightly less).

It is true that only four CL consoles on any single Dante network can be set to control Rio head amps. But if a console is just sending and receiving audio and not controlling anything, the only limit becomes the theoretical Dante channel traffic limit. If the fifth CL has no Rios mounted the network just sees it as another device ready to inject or retrieve audio to or from the network. We use Dante Controller to assign I/O to the fifth desk, works just fine.

Peter

PS--Please forgive the CAT6 crack. It came off a little snarky, and I'm not snarky. But I do love that word. Snarky. Fun to type.