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  #11  
Old 05-08-2021, 09:40 AM
ZEUSS ZEUSS is offline
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Default Re: 3 Pro Tools issues making me do (& redo) what should be the simplest tasks of any

Quote:
Originally Posted by take77 View Post
OK I'm going to be as warm-hearted as possible about this.
I know there are other threads regarding the specific issues I'm having but I would like to reiterate them.
Specifically, about the difficulty in carrying out simple tasks when composing & arranging MIDI clips.

I'm primarily a guitarist so my guitar tracks aren't entirely subject to these difficulties.
But it would be nice to get on with things when getting the MIDI accompaniment & arrangements for a clearly envisioned song down.

Here are the main issues that are making my compositional efforts a painstaking experience:

1. Pro Tools is not pasting/duplicating MIDI clips accurately.
A lot of effort has been put into the bass, drums & keyboard tracks and it would be a joy be able to re-arrange and modify these sections with ease.

When arriving at a new or better part for an existing section, I'd like to be able to duplicate each verse & chorus quickly.
Instead, a random amount of bass, drum & keyboard notes are getting shifted out of line with the original pattern.
Quite often, this happens to only half of an 8 bar section.
This is enough for things to sound jumbled or flammed at the transitions.

2. Sometimes when pasting a part onto the grid the first notes/chords of the next clip disappear.
I have to either drag the clip to make them re-appear or re-enter the note/chords all over again. Sometimes I can't even re-add a note on beat 1 without first creating a new consolidated clip.

This also happens when wanting to mute a select portion of notes in a clip.
I'll select a group of notes to mute and the first notes of the next clip also get muted.

3. Lastly, there are times when I simply want to insert or cut a single bar or section.
Cutting & inserting is as easy as it should be but I then discover that all my MIDI tracks have once again been altered.
A 2 second job turns into two hours of work all over again.
I have to inspect each clip and realign about half of the entire composition on every MIDI instrument.

I totally enjoy many other aspects and capabilities of Pro Tools but I'm having to work way too hard at these simple tasks.
And yet I still work at the envisioned composition no matter how long it takes.

I'll always be a PT user because I don't want to re-learn workflows in any other DAW at this point.
Please reward this user loyalty on the part of myself & others with a release that addresses these specific issues.

Kind regards,
Mike
Welcome To Pro Tools!!!
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  #12  
Old 05-08-2021, 10:56 AM
basehead617 basehead617 is offline
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Default Re: 3 Pro Tools issues making me do (& redo) what should be the simplest tasks of any

The best way to approach this is to share a simple PT project per issue with 1 midi track with some notes and describe what you do, what you expect to happen and what happens - that’s the core of QA.

Other people can try to reproduce that exact thing and maybe some light will be shed on this. Also Avid finding the thread have a readymade case to add an issue for if it’s confirmed.

A lot of things that seem like bugs are due to the myriad settings of the app as has been alluded to.
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  #13  
Old 05-08-2021, 09:47 PM
take77 take77 is offline
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Default Re: 3 Pro Tools issues making me do (& redo) what should be the simplest tasks of any

Quote:
Originally Posted by basehead617 View Post
The best way to approach this is to share a simple PT project per issue with 1 midi track with some notes and describe what you do, what you expect to happen and what happens - that’s the core of QA.

Other people can try to reproduce that exact thing and maybe some light will be shed on this. Also Avid finding the thread have a readymade case to add an issue for if it’s confirmed.

A lot of things that seem like bugs are due to the myriad settings of the app as has been alluded to.
I like this.
I'm hoping these issues are exclusive to this session. I've read that it only happens at certain tempos.
I started a new session last night and tried to recreate the problem at different tempos and was not yet able to. Which is positive but frustrating that things didn't work that easy in my full session.
If the issue persists in any new sessions, I'm simply going to commit established midi patterns to audio before making any changes to the arrangement.
Or readjust any alterations at the end of the project once over.
I'm going to stick with Pro Tools and the song no matter how long it takes to carry the vision out.

Thanks to everyone for their input and advice.

Last edited by take77; 05-09-2021 at 03:11 AM.
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  #14  
Old 05-11-2021, 08:08 AM
daeron80 daeron80 is offline
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Default Re: 3 Pro Tools issues making me do (& redo) what should be the simplest tasks of any

Gosh, this type of problem was reported numerous times on IdeaScale back when Avid was using that platform. It goes back at least to PT 11. If Avid still needs help identifying the issue, we're doomed.
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  #15  
Old 05-11-2021, 08:19 AM
take77 take77 is offline
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Default Re: 3 Pro Tools issues making me do (& redo) what should be the simplest tasks of any

Yeah it's totally confirmed in my sessions. PT couldn't even duplicate a 4 bar drum loop at 120BPM accurately today.

When I selected the clip it read 4 bars in the green bar length indicator.
Then when I hit Ctrl + D to duplicate it on the timeline the copied clip read 4 bars + 32 samples longer.
That's why the notes are shifted and the first notes of the next clip disappear.

It happens randomly.
I'll post a screen next time it happens I just didn't have time today.
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Last edited by take77; 05-11-2021 at 08:46 AM.
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  #16  
Old 05-11-2021, 08:23 AM
daeron80 daeron80 is offline
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Default Re: 3 Pro Tools issues making me do (& redo) what should be the simplest tasks of any

Just Google "pro tools sample rounding error" and read the top hits. There's an article about it in Avid's own knowledge base from...

wait for it...

2012. Yes, 2012. 9 years they've known about this issue and haven't yet fixed it.
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Nyquist was right.

PT 2021.3 Ultimate | Omni | macOS Catalina in a Trashcan 32GB
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  #17  
Old 05-11-2021, 02:16 PM
grayter1 grayter1 is offline
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Default Re: 3 Pro Tools issues making me do (& redo) what should be the simplest tasks of any

Quote:
Originally Posted by daeron80 View Post
2012. Yes, 2012. 9 years they've known about this issue and haven't yet fixed it.
Slowly learning Nuendo.... There are issues there too, but the midi and sample looping are on point.

tg
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Last edited by grayter1; 05-11-2021 at 02:51 PM.
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  #18  
Old 05-12-2021, 03:22 PM
Philthy Philthy is offline
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Default Re: 3 Pro Tools issues making me do (& redo) what should be the simplest tasks of any

Quote:
Originally Posted by daeron80 View Post
Just Google "pro tools sample rounding error" and read the top hits. There's an article about it in Avid's own knowledge base from...

wait for it...

2012. Yes, 2012. 9 years they've known about this issue and haven't yet fixed it.
Sample rounding issue is based on an actual math problem between samples and ticks. It's easily worked around by using an offset when looping or copy pasting regions. The other problem the OP mentions (notes shifted inside of the copy paste region) I have NEVER encountered after thousands of hours using PT MIDI.
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  #19  
Old 05-13-2021, 07:56 AM
daeron80 daeron80 is offline
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Default Re: 3 Pro Tools issues making me do (& redo) what should be the simplest tasks of any

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Originally Posted by Philthy View Post
Sample rounding issue is based on an actual math problem between samples and ticks.
A math problem that has been solved by every other MIDI sequencer maker on earth. Yes, I realize that it requires a tradeoff of some kind. But everyone else has done it in a way that works transparently for all musical purposes. Avid seem to think that math is more important than the usability of their product.
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PT 2021.3 | Saffire Pro 40 | Win10 latest, HP Z440 64GB.

Last edited by daeron80; 05-13-2021 at 08:35 AM.
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  #20  
Old 05-13-2021, 07:13 PM
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foxes foxes is offline
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Default Re: 3 Pro Tools issues making me do (& redo) what should be the simplest tasks of any

This is a LONG standing completely ignored by Avid bug that has absolutely frustrated the hell out of me since PT12!!

https://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=404739

https://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=410940

https://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=409558

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1720...00721126908470

And here more users on the Facebook Pro Tools Advanced Forum complaining of this very issue. Good thing here though is that he says that he raised a ticket with Avid Tech Support like so many of us have already done, but the difference is they have responded with this:

Entered on: 4/16/2021 8:10 AM Entered by: Narciso Carlos
Hello Mike,
This issue is related and logged under "PT-254223 (Important Escalation) MIDI clips/notes are shifting positions and lengths when duplicated in the timeline" and the fix for this bug will be included and is now scheduled in the following release, barring any other unforeseen delays.
From this point on, we will need to leave it up to Engineering.
If Engineering requests more info from your end I'll be sure to let you know. It is our general procedure to provide a defect number then close the case. Please let me know if you have any other questions or concerns before we do so.
Thank you for your patience regarding this.
For new case inquiries, you can create a new case at:
http://avid.force.com/Support/RegistrationCaseCreation


This the first I've known that Avid have not only acknowledged the bug but say a fix is imminent.......wow....finally!

Still not holding my breath though.
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Last edited by foxes; 05-14-2021 at 09:11 AM. Reason: gramar
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