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  #1  
Old 10-30-2002, 09:09 AM
tjkili tjkili is offline
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Default Syncing 2 DAWs

Hi guys,

I have built myself a second PC (PIII 700MHz) with a Soundblaster Live. On that PC Im going to install Cubase and wish to do all my Sequencing there. The Output of the SB Live is routed to the DIGI 3&4 Inputs. My main reason doing this is that I have far more options in using Virtuel Instruments.
My question now is how do I sync ProTools with Cubase? So if I playback in PT, Cubase should automatically start playback aswell.

Any advice would really help me out here.

Thanks in advance,
tjkili
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  #2  
Old 10-31-2002, 12:29 AM
tjkili tjkili is offline
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Default Re: Syncing 2 DAWs

Can really no one help me.... [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img]
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  #3  
Old 10-31-2002, 02:10 AM
Phil O'Keefe Phil O'Keefe is offline
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Default Re: Syncing 2 DAWs

Answer:

"It depends".

It depends on what you want to do, and what gear you have, and which one you want to be the transport (MMC - MIDI Machine Control) master, and which one will be the slave...

Mainly, locking two sequencers together is going to have to be done with MTC (MIDI Time Code), since PT LE doesn't support true SMPTE. You'll need a MIDI interface on the Cubase machine that supports MTC... then patch a MIDI cable out of the Digi 001's MIDI out jack and into the Cubase MIDI in jack, set the 001 to transmit MTC and the Cubase program to slave to MTC incoming on the MIDI port you patched to.

Now you'll need to set Cubase as the MMC master and PT LE as the MMC slave. That way, when you press "play" on the Cubase machine, it sends out a MMC command to the PT machine, which starts playing, and then the PT machine sends out a MTC message to the Cubase machine, which then synchs to it and also plays. This means you'll also need a second MIDI cable going out of a MIDI out on the Cubase machine and into the Digi 001's MIDI in jack.

If you're also planning on transferring any digital audio from one machine to the other (via S/PDIF or Lightpipe), you'll also need to make sure one device is set as the Word Clock master and the other one as the Word Clock slave - otherwise, you'll get pops and clicks and other "nasties" in the audio.

That's the basics... check the manuals for the specific settings - especially in Cubase - sorry, but I don't use that program, so I can't give you specifics there.
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  #4  
Old 10-31-2002, 03:39 AM
tjkili tjkili is offline
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Default Re: Syncing 2 DAWs

thanks Phil for the answer.
The problem is that the MIDI In Port of my SB Live is allready occupied by my Keyboard Controller. This leaves me only with the MIDI Out of my SB Live.

Would it work if I patch the Midi Out of the Digi001 to the Midi In of my Keyboard. Then patch the Midi Thru of my Keyboard to the Midi In of the SB?

Im wondering if this way PT could send MMC to Cubase, and I still would be able to use the Keyboard to trigger my VSTis in Cubase.
But probably only one or the other works.
That would conclude that Ill need a Soundcard that has 2 Midi Ins & 2 Midi Outs.

Or is there another way around?

Thanks in advance for any further replies.
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Old 10-31-2002, 03:49 AM
Phil O'Keefe Phil O'Keefe is offline
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Default Re: Syncing 2 DAWs

Quote:
Originally posted by tjkili:
thanks Phil for the answer.
The problem is that the MIDI In Port of my SB Live is allready occupied by my Keyboard Controller. This leaves me only with the MIDI Out of my SB Live.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sounds like it's time for an additional MIDI interface on the Cubase computer...

Quote:
Would it work if I patch the Midi Out of the Digi001 to the Midi In of my Keyboard. Then patch the Midi Thru of my Keyboard to the Midi In of the SB?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No. MIDI Thru would probably work fine for transmitting the incoming MIDI from the Digi 001 out "through" your keyboard, but the "Thru" jack only re-transmits what's coming in to the MIDI "In" jack on a device, and will NOT also include MIDI messages generated by that device. What you'd need in order to accomplish this is a box called a MIDI Merger. That would take two incoming MIDI in's and "merge" them together into a single MIDI out. Such devices can be problematic in many cases though... IMO, you'd be better off adding a simple 2X2 MIDI interface to the Cubase computer system. Maybe something like the M Audio / MIDIMan MIDIsport 2X2 USB MIDI interface...

Quote:
Im wondering if this way PT could send MMC to Cubase, and I still would be able to use the Keyboard to trigger my VSTis in Cubase.
But probably only one or the other works.
That would conclude that Ill need a Soundcard that has 2 Midi Ins & 2 Midi Outs.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Correct. Or just add a second MIDI interface... you can run more than one MIDI interface on a single computer. But a different soundcard might be appropriate here, since the SB has limited I/O and not the greatest sonics in the world. Something like a Frontier Design Wavecenter might be ideal for you... it has 8 channels of lightpipe I/O and a 2X2 (if memory serves) MIDI interface on a single PCI card. You could then hook up the digital outs (lightpipe) from the Cubase machine to the digital ins on the PT machine, and bring your Cubase audio "into" the PT machine via Aux input channels.

Quote:
Thanks in advance for any further replies.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No problem. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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  #6  
Old 10-31-2002, 04:19 AM
tjkili tjkili is offline
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Default Re: Syncing 2 DAWs

Thank you, I really appreciate your help [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Ill probably go for another Soundcard. As you said the Sonics are not too great. Also the latency is pretty bad on the Soundblaster.

thanks again,

tjkili
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Old 10-31-2002, 08:26 AM
Pako Pako is offline
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Default Re: Syncing 2 DAWs

If you have both computer's networked (i.e., cat5, pier-to-pier, or with a hub) you might want to look at:

http://www.musiclab.com/products/rpl_info.htm

For virtual MIDI ports without having to run or use actual MIDI cables to/from each DAW.

I personally haven't done this, but it appears that this application is specifically designed to do such a task.
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  #8  
Old 10-31-2002, 04:29 PM
Oz-boy Oz-boy is offline
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Default Re: Syncing 2 DAWs

Hi tjkili,

You also have to realise that PT will not lock to(or send out) continuous MTC. MTC into PT will trigger playback but once started there is no reference back to the other machine ... you may find they will drift out of sync with a long song.

However if you use a soundcard with a digital interface you can connect it to the 001 & get perfect sync because the 2 systems now lock to a single word clock. Either Cubase or PT needs to be set to external sync.

A card like the M-Audio Audiophile 2496 would give you a digital SPDIF IO that can be connected to the 001 SPDIF IO. I have been looking at getting this card myself and have read a lot of good reports about it ... both from people on this forum & from the Cubase forum (low latency, good drivers, great sound).

Oz
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  #9  
Old 11-01-2002, 12:34 AM
Phil O'Keefe Phil O'Keefe is offline
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Default Re: Syncing 2 DAWs

I have an Audiophile 2496 - it was in my Gigastudio computer, but now it's the "second" soundcard on my PT system and my US-428 is on the Giga machine. Anyway, it's a nice sounding card, and has been trouble free. I think I paid about $150 or so for it. I don't really use the MIDI on it, and couldn't even tell you if it comes with only one or two MIDI I/O's on it.
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  #10  
Old 11-01-2002, 12:42 AM
tjkili tjkili is offline
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Default Re: Syncing 2 DAWs

Hey thanks for all the info,

got a few options now to think about.
I will try the "MidioverLAN" as there is a free Demo available. Thanks for Link.

If I for exsample sync PT and Cubase with the S/PDIF Ins&Outs (wordclock) will I be able to start Playback at a certain location in the song and the system which is set to slave will also jump to that location?
(Huh what a long sentence)
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