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Old 02-23-2020, 01:13 PM
JFreak's Avatar
JFreak JFreak is offline
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Default Re: Frozen files

Originally Posted by Ride2 View Post
So, it's not possible to have a single file, witch shares many undo levels?
Even if it did, WAV is uncompressed audio so it would mean such file would hold same amount of data. Very counter-productive way to implement undo, compared to multiple files (of which you actually can delete the unnecessary ones)
What we do in life, echoes in eternity.
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Old 06-20-2022, 10:02 AM
lostman lostman is offline
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Default Re: Frozen files

So I just found this thread as I have the same problem the original poster does, now two years after their initial post. Btw, per the moderator, I have "RTFM" countless times, but I'll "play along" as the moderator has also suggested for participants of forums.

In that regard, I confirm:

1. the frozen files still do NOT appear in any track list (either right-hand or left-hand side of edit window clip lists) despite countless pro tools upgrades since the initial 2020 post.

2. there is NO function or button etc. to clear, remove, display etc. any "unused" clips in the most recent pro tools upgrade to pro tools studio as of this writing.

I would also add:

1. Serializing and storing obsolete temporary "frozen" files (or similar "committed" files) is not a reasonable so-called "feature" as claimed. As these accumulations DO waste TONS of disk space over time, especially when working with 10 or more hi-res tracks (up to 100 for some projects of mine, and others create many more than I do.) I spend MUCH time cleaning up after pro tools in that respect. Avid should AT LEAST create a checkbox option under "preferences" to allow the end-user to decide whether or not to store prior rendered (obsolete) frozen and/or committed files, at minimum. Now, that added checkbox WOULD be a positive new feature offering greater flexibility for all pro tools users.

2. There are NUMEROUS bugs related to freezing/unfreezing and working with frozen or committed files that appear to be ignored by pro tools developers ongoing for years now. I could go on and on here, for example:

a) don't try to re-order tracks in the mix window, your frozen files will become scrambled because pro tools doesn't apply them correctly after re-ordering. So your frozen electric guitar track now becomes the frozen tuba track, lol.

b) whenever pro tools warns you not to change the tempo map if frozen files are involved, it's already too late! If you see that message then pro tools has ALREADY wiped out your frozen files from the session and you must re-render ALL of them (wasting even more disk space and time.) Although those trashed files are obsolete in the pro tools session, those files STILL EXIST on disk and are now useless, so the fz cm filenames do NOT match with the most recent midi source in any case.

c) In all cases, new fz or cm files are appended with 01, 02,03-05 etc, and are never truly deleted from disk. So -03 might actually be the true current version even though -05 was obsolete and previously deleted to save space, but who really knows for sure which file pro tools will choose; ) So there appears to be no way to reliably use the serialized fz or cm files in any case whatsoever if there is more than one such file ever associated with a particular track and prior obsolete versions were ever deleted.

d) don't think about touching the mouse during a freeze or unfreeze operation, for if you do pro tools may lock-up or close unexpectedly. WAIT for AT LEAST 10 seconds until AFTER the operation appears finished otherwise your session may crash or hang up. This is true even on pro tools approved computers, such as what I use. Please also note the disk operations are all via ssd and I have tons of ram and max cpu speed on this system, so it's def not a user system problem.

e) if using committed files to avoid the excessive bugs with frozen files, then please note, even though COMMITTED files do appear in the right-hand clip list and can even be deleted from the pro tools session, unfortunately, the filenames do NOT at all match the name that you may have given the track. So, again, you cannot reliably tell which clips are really active or obsolete, since all clips and source are always called midi 1 or audio 4, etc. in all cases, and despite what you've named the track. Moreover, while obsolete cm files may be deleted from the session, those files are NEVER deleted from disk. So much disk space is routinely accumulated and wasted via routine freezing/unfreezing (or committing/recommitting) of tracks either way, until the end user physically deletes those junk files outside of pro tools and through the operating system instead.

In short, there are myriad problems with serializing and storing obsolete fz and cm files in the present Avid pro tools system design. That design approach really needs to be abandoned, as it cannot reliably handle the countless unknown complexities of user demands to be placed on their pro tools sessions. In all cases, there should be just ONE single fz or cz file per any given track within an open session at any given time. So whenever a track is unfrozen or deleted from a session, it should be deleted both from the session AND disk at that moment. Freezing/unfreezing or similar should not be managed via the "undo" edit command, rather, just re-freeze or unfreeze or commit as needed. Frozen and committed filenames should always match the track names that are assigned by the end-user to the tracks, in all cases. Reordering tracks on the mix window should have no bearing on their associated fz or cm files. If the end user changes the name of a track then the names of any associated fz or cm files should follow automatically. If restoring prior versions of a session are an issue, then each frozen track file may be better managed by pro tools developers by appending the session version to the various single fz or cm track files that follow that archived session version. Problems solved for everyone.

I'm also stunned by the moderator's attempt to shift blame to the original poster via the moderator's RTFM comment. In that regard, and in keeping with the moderator's style and standards set forth in this thread, this appears to me more so as a case where Avid should DYFJ instead.

PLEASE fix the numerous design flaws associated with fz and cm files, thank you.

Last edited by lostman; 06-20-2022 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 06-23-2022, 03:37 PM
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albee1952 albee1952 is offline
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Default Re: Frozen files

I'm not sure what flaws you associate with.cm files. I have used Track Commit for years with zero issues here(though almost always its done up to a certain plugin). As for frozen files, I got bit in the ***** one time and that was enough. Now, if I freeze something, I ALWAYS unfreeze it as soon as the need is passed(and certainly before closing the session). Usually, I will use Track Commit, and if there's any chance I need to make a change, then I keep the original on screen, but inactive(but I also have never had a problem bringing up a hidden track either).
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Old 06-23-2022, 05:17 PM
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Default Re: Frozen files

My experience has been pretty much the same as Dave's.
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Old 06-24-2022, 05:02 AM
lostman lostman is offline
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Default Re: Frozen files

I tend to generally agree too that frozen files are MUCH more problematic and unstable in many ways than committed files. I've been bitten by frozen files many times as well, and nearly lost one project because of it. Since I've switched to committed files most problems are resolved with just occasional minor hick-ups (so far.) So I cringe and keep my fingers crossed there.

However, frozen files are so problematic the feature should either be scrapped or revamped so freezing is made more viable and reliable. As I now review my earlier post, I see that all of the problems I've mentioned are mostly impacting frozen files. Committed files can be removed from disk within pro tools while frozen files do not appear in the clip list at all.
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