Auto Tune Live

[rellimit]

We have an SC48, and I'm looking to get Antares Auto Tune. They just came out with Auto Tune Live (low latency) which seems optimal. But the Avid site currently only lists Auto Tune Evo as a supported plug-in.

When researching, it seems like there were some driver installation issues with the Evo in a Venue system at first, but Avid released a workaround. Because of this, I'm afraid to install the Live version with no reviews or historical input.

1. Any advice or direction regarding Evo vs. Live?
2. Can or should I use TDM or RTAS (or either) on an SC48? Please forgive my ignorance if this is a dumb question. From the Antares knowledge base below, they say to use the TDM (for Evo), but their Live product only has RTAS and VST options. I assume I would download the Windows compatible version for the Venue system (as opposed to Mac)?

From Antares knowledge base:
"However, it should be possible to run the TDM format of Auto-Tune Evo in the Automatic mode on a VENUE system. You can download the latest version of the Auto-Tune Evo TDM plug-in file from the following web page to determine how well it will run on your VENUE system."

Thanks for any help.

[Roland Clarke]

You can only run TDM effects and plugins on Venue systems, it might be that the Auto Tune Live if it's a newer product may not have a TDM version.

As an aside, I would strongly recommend against Autotune in a live environment, unless you are looking at it for an effect. If you have a singer with real problem tunning, it's unlikey to work as anything more than a quatertone out it will pull to the nearest semitone. Even with great singers they often use modulation in their voice that can be more than a semitone that can result in some really unwanted results.

There was a few years ago a video posted on youtube where they had used autotune on Billy Joels voice at the Superbowl, outside of the fact that I doubt he would be that far off, the result was horrendous and the clip was bandied around as an example of "idiot" sound engineering.

These products are much better left as studio fix's, used with the utmost care.

[rellimit]

Originally Posted by Roland Clarke

"idiot" sound engineering.

This is the last thing I want. Thank you for the warning - I watched the video - no good at all. And thank you for the information regarding TDMs. I agree that the best place for a tool like this is in the studio. I know that if it tunes to an undesired note in a live service, then I would be the one who would look like the idiot.

All of our worship leaders will veer off pitch. They are taking voice lessons, but just starting them. The boss said that we must purchase an auto tune. Before implementing in a service, I was planning to really feel it out in virtual sound check. I could also use that as a platform to show the boss how auto tune can go very badly if the singer is too far off pitch.

But I've also been reading some threads where FOH engineers are incredibly happy with using auto tune as subtle correction -- not as an effect -- and listing recommended settings. And I believe you can also set the key signature. Given, it can still tune to an undesired note, but if it's in the correct key signature then chances are less likely to be a train wreck. This of course is all speculation on my end...

Has anyone out there used Auto Tune Live then? I've been unable to find any reviews on it. But I guess it doesn't really matter if it's not compatible with the Venue family.

[Limelight]

You hit the nail on the head...You absolutely must select the appropriate key signiture for auto tune to work effectively. I have used Auto Tune on my SC48 for over 2 years now every week and have tried virtually every combination of adjustment to each knob on the plugin and I have found that in order to obtain the desired sound (either the robotic effect or subtle correction), the key must be accurately selected. So much so as I have created presets for each and every song we play so that I know for a fact I get the keys correct. Then if you have rehearsals, and you can determine if there is a note being sung that is outside the key, and can add it back in to the settings so that the plugin doesn't correct to the wrong note. This takes some time but is WELL worth it. Hope this helps.

[voidmix]

Originally Posted by rellimit

The boss said that we must purchase an auto tune.

He's heading towards what will likely be a disappointing result.

[rellimit]

To follow up...

I installed a trial of the TDM version and set things up with a virtual sound check. This included setting the correct key signature for each song in snapshots. However, our substitute keyboardist forgot to hit the transpose button on a song that he was starting. So when the lead vocalist came in, the auto tune was pulling him to the correct key, but it was a different key than they keyboard (1/2 step off). Needless to say, this is about the worst case scenario that I can think of for using auto tune in a live scenario.

It took about 0.5 seconds for me to shut off the plug-in (2 sung words). People definitely noticed that something was weird, but probably couldn't place their finger on it. The big issue was when the rest of the band came in with the correct key -- which was a train wreck.

We still ended up buying the auto tune to use for one particular singer, but I'm ready for quick shutoff as fast as possible if needed. And that keyboardist isn't substituting any more.

[Roland Clarke]

Hi, just a follow up on your post. Several people here are posting about how you need to choose the right key signature and the settings, let me just correct them and spell out the issues.

If you choose the correct key signature, the autotune will pull to the nearest note, so technically, as long as the singer is within a semitone (in most cases) they will be ok. This brings up two further issues regarding the key signature alone. Firstly, all key signatures (both major and minor) have some half tone steps, in these cases the singer has to be within a quarter tone, that is pretty accurate. If you have a singer that is consistently better than that (and they need to be or it won't track without errors), they will likely sound fine without autotune. Second issues has to do with songs. Many songs modulate, have key changes or accidentals that are not in the regular key scale, in this scenario the autotune will not accept the note and pull it to the nearest note that conforms to the scale. Unless you want to be chasing the song and programming multiple keys that an operator has to trigger at the right given moment.

After all the above has been said, you still have the situation of the modulation (vibrato, etc) in peoples voices. Great singers (and I mean those that definitely do not need autotune,) will have subtle variations of pitch, portmento and inflections that will confuse Autotune. To understand this, take a really good recorded vocal track, (obviously from a seperately recorded multitrack) and open it up in Melodyne or Autotune. Look at the modulation and inflections and see how far they are off from the official pitch. Even better, select all the notes and hit the tune button. Now listen to how many wrong notes you get. A similar scenario is the speech recognition systems they use for offering subtitles in real time to the news channels. As good as the systems are, they still make a lot of very obvious errors. This is with good singers, bad ones won't even get close, I've witnessed many live performances where the vocal was more than a semitone flat all the way through, because of the requirement for autotune to work accurately, this won't work.

Autotune live, is like feedback destroyers and just as useless.

[nerd513]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLK0gfuAsCI

i wouldnt say useless... for the record auto tune live is only native because its already low latency in TDM... we have auto tune live at my friends studio he is running HD native... we use auto tune live for tracking and auto tune 7 for mixing... on my HD rig we use auto tune 7 TDM for tracking and mixing... auto tune live does work well with a native system basically the same as TDM...

[Dizzi45Z]

Has anybody heard any word on whether AutoTune Live is going to go AAX? Still waiting and hoping.