Digi001 vs Protools

[karlp]

I have a Digi 001 but am thinking of upgrading to full Protools.

I am not a professional and will never make money mixing etc so I will be buying as a hobby.

What advantages will full Protools give me. All I do is record brass bands (25 players) onto ADAT - mix ,edit - then go to CD.

Will TDM give me any real advantages over RTAS etc.

I will be lucky to mix more than 5 CDs per year.

Last question - is it worth me spending the money to upgrade or should I stay with 001.

Karl

[blake eat world]

it's not one of those "how does it sound?" upgrades, basically if you need the features move up and if you don't don't

[ianmiller]

I was in the same position as you and recently bought PT and a Control 24 - and they are great - especially the TDM plug ins and just not having to worry (much) about computer overloads. That said, the Digi001 is really good and has pretty nice converters. If you like the plug ins you have through RTAS, and are not overloading your computer - I would say that you are really spending a fair amount for marginal improvement. Having said all that, I am glad I made the move.

[peteri]

I agree - I've just gone from 001 to PT24 and would like to add the following comments:

Firstly - I'm soooo glad I did it, even with my limited DSP power, the TDM reverbs just sound better, I can run soft-synths easier (Dynamo/Reactor are such processor hogs) and it's nice to know I have the choice of pretty much all plugins available (bar those that require a Mix card).

The convertors sound much better than the 001 - and I've only got the 888/16.

Everything just runs 'better' as the Mac isn't so stressed.

only slight negative for me is that you don't realise how good the interfacing on the 001 is. I also had to buy a Focusrite Penta to give me a guitar input and Mic pre (very pleased BTW). And a small mixer to act as a headphone amp.

In summary - I am very pleased and will recommend it to everyone, but have a good play because even the Mix+ systems are limited in DSP, for instance plug-in sharing of DSP is poor in my opinion (for instance you couldn't run two plugins from different manufacturers on the same dsp chip - nine times out of ten anyway).

Good luck

Pete

[Don Geppert]

Karlp. Personally I would think long and hard about this move especially in light of what you do. If you're only doing brass recordings, and you're trying to keep everything "o naturel", you won't need or use all the bells and whistles of a TDM system imho. The jump from LE to TDM is a "serious" cost differential and I doubt you'll see that investment return unless you start to spread your recording horizons out. Having said that, the TDM system has better coverters, certainly has better plugs, and of course more tracks and voices etc., but like I said, at a huge price jump. Ian, Blake and Peteri do make some good points. Personally, (in light of what you do), I wouldn't do it, I'd invest instead in higher end mics, since good capture is everything in classic acoustic style recordings, if you have them already, save your money. There might be an argument for the "converter issue",but if you and your clients are happy witrh what you're producing now, that would provide your answer. Hope this helps and doesn't confuse you too much.
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[karlp]

Thanks for all your help guys - really appreciated.

AS said I am pure amateur and will not make any money (this is pure hobby so 4500 GBp for a TDM is a lot to spend).

For the front end I have 2*neuman u87 ai and 2 * Rode NT2 with about 6 C3000. At present I have 1 * blackface ADAT but am thinking of getting the Alesis HD24 when available. Mic pre amps are TLA 5001 (maybe you can recommend some better ones for the Neumans).

Outboard - I have Lexicon PCM81 and DBX Quantum.

I am lookinh for a good EQ (maybe TLA E2) and compressor (any suggestions).

I have no plugins for the 001 but have thought about Waves Native Bundle.

One thing I totally agree with is - rubbish in rubbish out so the front end is a must.

Thanks guys - still thinking but it is a lot of money and it may be better spent on other parts of my setup.

Karl

[peteri]

This has been an excellent discussion, and I'd like to add a couple of final (for me) points.

I completely think what has been said is true, and the points are exactly the ones I battled with I too am an amateur, maybe someone will pay me a bit - but I really doubt it, there are just too many good pros fighting for the crust.

I think the main problem with the TDM switch is that all of a sudden you've jumped onto a completely different upgrade/pricing model, one that will possibly be a lot more expensive, as you've moved up into a different market.

This worried me a lot - yes I could do it now, but could I do it again next year, and the year after that. The conclusion I came to was that there would always be enough value in a TDM system that I could move back down to the Digi001 (or equivalent) again, and instead I looked at it as upgrading my Mac - I have a 533 G4, if apple launched a dual 1G that digi supports I'd have paid 2-3grand for that (I'm in the UK too) - and I've certainly got a significant performance boost from switching to TDM and freeing up my processor.

The other thing to think about is the second hand market - which is where I picked up my system, for a fraction of the list price (email me if you want and I'll tell you), this is a nicer place to be if you don't have to be bleeding edge (this isn't my normal mindset by the way - I normally always buy new), look at the prices on here and you'll see you can get a Mixfarm for about $2400 - which is pretty cheap in Sterling, again similar price to upgrading my Mac without the pain.

Therefore I came to the conclusion that I'd move to TDM with this mindset - stay slightly off the cutting edge, I don't need to be there - I'm not having to sell to clients. With 5.1 of PT I can use RTAS plugins with TDM - so this gives me a pretty good system.

For me this move has made a lot of sense as I'm keen to do everything within PT, I use SSC and ultimately want to use Access Virus to replace my Koblo/NI stuff, I've made that decision because PT works with no hassle, the support is good and I've spent too long trying to get other stuff working.

If you're on a different route and just want to use PT as a recorder then what you've said mades great sense, and would stand you in good stead even if you do move to TDM later, one of the nice things for me has been that the keyboard shortcuts/editing is just that bit better in TDM and (for me) it makes the whole thing more pleasurable to use - and this is important to me - so don't just look at the plugins.

Sorry for the long ramble, and I hope this helps, I do think there it is a very good strategy you have decided on and makes perfect sense - I just really wanted to say 'don't be scared of the list prices (and don't feel you have to pay them' - there is an alternative, and a justification for the prices you will have to pay.

Good luck - feel free to contact me if I can help at all.

Pete