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  #11  
Old 05-27-2005, 11:12 AM
superpenguin79 superpenguin79 is offline
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Default Re:Keys to Success at a Studio (From \"Employment\")

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Even if the message is urgent (except for "FIRE!" or "They're stealing the mics!")

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  #12  
Old 05-27-2005, 11:46 AM
RobN RobN is offline
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Default Re:Keys to Success at a Studio (From \"Employment\")

Don't laugh. One of the first things I did as intern was "watch the mics" when the groups "posse" showed up. Ten to twelve people in the studio who aren't recording is a bit much, don't you think?
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  #13  
Old 05-27-2005, 01:11 PM
Eric Heil Eric Heil is offline
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Default Re:Keys to Success at a Studio (From \"Employment\")

Hey RobN!

Great Input!

Penguin-I fell out out my chair on that one too!

Eric
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  #14  
Old 05-27-2005, 07:08 PM
fakshen fakshen is offline
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Default Re:Keys to Success at a Studio (From \"Employment\")

I had the fortune to be paid support as an entry level position for a small studio (two owner/operators, one staff engineer, and myself).

Basically, I was a paid intern. I now own my own studio.

I would say to anyone looking over the message and wanting to be an intern, to MEMORIZE thelist. They may disagree with particular lines, but it's a great conservative basis to start out from.

Four year programs are like any college diploma. It's only good for getting your foot in the door. It means you PROBABLY have the technical inclination to handle the gear. It says nothing about your personality or aptitude.

For the people who were negative towards the first posting on the job board... think of this: Not every salmon that swims upstream to spawn makes it. The weak, the misguided, and the unfortunate never make it. I think interning is a great way to seperate the weak and stupid from those who are going to make great engineers. It's a shame about the unfortunate, but bad things happen.

This job takes a special kind of person, someone who knows both extreme confidence a Shogun and the humility of a Buddhist monk.

Kudos on putting on paper what ever intern should know in his/her gut. However I think carrying a notepad and PENCIL (not pen) should be the FIRST requirement. I hate explaining things twice... from what I want for lunch to how to resolve a beta-deck with a workstation.

Mike Lattimore
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  #15  
Old 05-27-2005, 10:09 PM
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JCBigler JCBigler is offline
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Default Re:Keys to Success at a Studio (From \"Employment\")

Gee, I was kind of under the impression that there weren't any studios that actually had internship programs anymore. All the ones I've called have told me the same thing, something to the effect of: "sorry, this is a small studio, and I already have a partner."

BTW, I don't appreciate the the anology of the salmon. It really irkes me when someone compares younger less experienced people to mindless animals that only do what they are doing out of sheer instinct, and that lack any sort of free will to do otherwise.

Human beings are different, we have souls and free will. We choose what we do, and how we go about doing it. Denigrating younger generations who are trying to make their own way in the world by treating them like feces is not the way to advance a civilization. I mean, let's face it. This world is royally-jacked up because of the older people who do these things. The only hope that this world has for redemption is in the youth, and they ought to be treated as such.

To the people that say, "you HAVE to do things this way, because it's the way I did them, and the way they have always been done, so if you want to do it too, then you HAVE to do it this way", I say, to hell with the lot of you. That's the kind of mindset they have at Westpoint, or The Citadel. This is art, and music we're talking about here. It's the physical expression of the human soul, and for someone to say that there are X number of rules you have to follow if you want to be successful at it, otherwise you will fail; well then, mabey it's time we find a new way.

Here, I've got a couple of rules for the old crusty grey haird engineers out there that are going to die with their fists clenching the faders on their boards:

1) Treat your interns like full fledged and dually appointed members of the human race.
2) You're going to die someday. Share your years of experience and knowledge with the younger generations, so that we can advance this art.

The world is forever changing. The music and recording industry is changing--already has in many ways. Never again will we return to the days of the big budget recording studios whith lots of staff and huge budgets, and places for interns who just sit and watch and listen. Those engineers who told me that they just had a small studio, and already have a partner, also told me--with out saying it--that they don't have enough work for a dedicated intern. They can't afford to pay, or even have some one hanging around who isn't actually doing something.

Largely because of Digidesign, and Protools, and ESPECCIALLY Protools LE. We no longer need four or five people to perform the mix. Now, one person can do everything themselves, because of the automation that Protools offers. But that also means less opertunities for people to learn from those with more experience.

So, I make this challenge to the older, more experience engineers out there:

Don't find an intern. Find someone to mentor. Spend a year teaching a newbie what's involved in the recording and production process. Teach them about the equipment, and techniques, and introduce them to others in the field. And then spend a year with another.
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  #16  
Old 05-28-2005, 04:08 AM
Eric Heil Eric Heil is offline
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Default Re:Keys to Success at a Studio (From \"Employment\")

Please explain your brilliance on attaining a paid internship fakshen?!? I must confess the notepad idea came from another engineer here in atlanta. She did an article for Mix Magazine. Her article was the impetous and inspiration for a list from my perspective. It was an incredible article and if I can find the name of the author and the issue I'll post a link here!

To JC!

WOW! how did you ever get that impression. Internships are still the mainstay to completeing most Post High School educations. I kown a few studios that it would be well worth anybody's while to save and intern at, here in Atlanta. If you know someone looking to "Break Into" the market. Go to my web site and contact me. BTW There is no such thing as a "Mindless Animal". All of us are driven by passions beyond our control. For the Salmon it just happens to be the urge to get back home and get LAID! (Pardon me Mr./Ms. Webmaster but this is a fact you can see on Discovery Channel every day).

If you are a Studio Owner, then how you conduct your business is completely your desision. If you are an intern or regular employee then, at the very least, respect for the man or woman that made your entry into your chosen profession or your weekly paystub possible. Even in the worst situations, there is always something of value to learn. If only to know how "NOT" to do things. If you or a freind find yourself in a similar happenstance where the engineer won't give you the shot you want, then make the absolute most of and ANNOUNCE every opportunity you've been given as "The Latest and Greatest" that you've done, no matter how small it seems at the moment.

Working ANYWHERE for ANY amount of money should be thought of as a chance to build your resume and hone your skills as an engineer. If your impression of your internship was "old crusty grey haired" with both hands superglued to the board then perhaps you should have done a bit more research on the facility. Everyone looking to intern should be looking for internships like any other job they want. Teat it as if they were looking for the facility they want to Die Superglued to the console at... LOL!

This industry fires the souls of real engineers. If your in it for the money and fame you may want to go intern for Donald Trump or stay a recording artist! With extreme talent, determination, guts, and odds worse than the lottery you'll be good enough to sell a few million albums and get that new H2.

Eric
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  #17  
Old 05-28-2005, 08:14 AM
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lemix lemix is offline
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Default Re:Keys to Success at a Studio (From \"Employment\")

Wow...I'd say.
I'm replying no one in particular, just find this thread interesting.
I'm one of the above mentioned "grey haird engineers out there that are going to die with their fists clenching the faders on their boards".. I've done the teaching thing. One of my client has become interested in the recording process and asked me if he could hang around and learn.
Timing was perfect , as we were getting quite busy. He had basic electronics knowledge, had a home studio and was a guitar/bass player. There was no pay for about six months, but after that I've become quite reliant on him and we set a flat rate/session fee.
This relationship lasted for 10 years and we are great friends still. I would leave him alone do do my whole sessions now with confidence.
On the other hand, the studio I'm currently located at have received many applications for an interning position. The main difference is, most of these kids want to get paid and don't even show up on time for their first appointment !! Some don't even show at all !!
So, all that said..ask yourselves if you are ready for the long and frustrating haul, being broke..etc.
No need to point fingers in the studios/older engineers direction. TIMING is crucial. Get to know some of the clients, ask them to demand your presence.
Notepad is a great idea, BTW. There is a lot to absorb at a fast pace.
Oh, and pack lunch. Not all sessions cater ! Salmon is good...

good luck to all ,
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  #18  
Old 05-28-2005, 12:29 PM
Chief Technician Chief Technician is offline
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Default Re:Keys to Success at a Studio (From \"Employment\")

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Four year programs are like any college diploma. It's only good for getting your foot in the door. It means you PROBABLY have the technical inclination to handle the gear.

Mike Lattimore
If you look at Eric's original thread, you can read my stance on the topic of having a degree. A degree, or more importantly the time spent at any institution immersing yourself in this field, is what you make of it. I had a degree, I completed two (2) unpaid (yes, unpaid) internships, and I also went above and beyond what the average student would do. I made it a point to expand my horizons (and consequently my knowledge) and subject myself to some trial by fire.

I was hired to start a job as the chief engineer of a large post studio the day after I graduated with a B.M. in this field. That was four years ago. I still have that job today. Have I made mistakes? Absolutely. Have I been praised? Absolutely.

The keys to success start before you get the internship and apply Eric's list. Anyone aspiring to do any work in this field currently in a degree program should make the most of that degree program and the time enrolled in it.

Fakshen knows who I am. He and I are on a Yahoo! group. On said group, he posted a question, which started out as "Ok, maybe this is one for <chief technician>..." If that kind of regard isn't proof of what someone can do relatively early in their career with a degree, internships, and desire, I'm not sure what is. Note that this isn't to brag, its to prove a point. I'll let my posts here and elsewhere and the studio I work for speak for my work.

Eric, please give us the info on the article that inspired your list. I'd like to unearth it and perhaps re-read it.
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  #19  
Old 05-28-2005, 12:57 PM
RobN RobN is offline
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Default Re:Keys to Success at a Studio (From \"Employment\")

For my part, I was just making observations about my own 6 month, non-paid internship which happened to be with a somewhat stingy engineer. The school I went to was not good. I frankly didn't have the money to go to the bigger, more expensive and most definitely better school (although my old school has gotten way better, so I hear) Even though I got the highest grade in class, my wife got me my intern job. A degree or certification is important. I do wish that I had more real world training (at the time (early 90s) we were tracking to ADAT, mixing down to DAT and barely had Cakewalk for MIDI not to mention a real DAW (anyone remember SAW??). I have been out of the loop for 5 years or so and am now jumping back in with both feet starting a mobile studio. Talk about rust!
My advice is take what you can get and then look for more. Go to school to learn the basics, but you'll learn quick with a generous engineer.
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  #20  
Old 05-30-2005, 02:31 AM
Eric Heil Eric Heil is offline
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Default Re:Keys to Success at a Studio (From \"Employment\")

The Article appeared on Mix Magazine Online extras by Sara A. Hughes and was given to me by the afformentioned friend who asked if I would be iterested in "Interning" with him for a while

http://mixonline.com/education/artic...ne_extra_title

I would print it here for all of you but it's not my property!...

Eric
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