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  #1  
Old 12-17-2003, 08:30 AM
jmisner jmisner is offline
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Default Hope for non-digidesign hardware compatibility?

I own a 001 and really like using PTLE. However I'm thinking about moving to another platform in order to get better converters, higher sample rates, soundcards, and pres, without having to buy and TDM system, which would cost several times more for the same sound quality (granted not as many I/O, but I don't need more than 2). Can Digidesign or anyone else tell me if they're planning on making LE compatible with non-digi hardware in the future? It seems like PT would have even a bigger fan base if this was possible. All the other platforms support other hardware. I realize I could add external converters and pres to my 001, but then I'm limited to 48k. I'd have to upgrade to a 002 for 96k, but that's just extra money in addition to better converters and pres I'd want to add. Any thoughts on this or knowledge of future digi plans?

Thanks

JM
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  #2  
Old 12-17-2003, 08:56 AM
froyo froyo is offline
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Default Re: Hope for non-digidesign hardware compatibility?

Hello. You can already use other converters and mic pres and connect to any Digidesign hardware through the digital inputs. A very large part of installed TDM systems bypass the Digidesign hardware completely and just use the software. Your only limitation with the Digi 001 will be the 48 Khz sampling rate. If you want to do higher sampling rates in LE you will need an 002 or 002 Rack, or on a TDM system. As for Digidesign allowing other hardware, that subject has been discussed a million times since they introduced the LE systems. Basically, it'll never happen. I know that you can truly never say never, and anything is possible, but this one is a pretty good bet. You hear this argument a lot, that if Digidesign was open to other hardware they would have even more people. What this argument doesn't consider is that in reality, if Pro Tools could be used without Digidesign hardware, it would be the single most pirated software in audio. When was the last time you came across a pirated version of Pro Tools? That's what I thought. There are zero pirated copies available, and the reason for that is Digidesign's closed proprietary hardware policy.

If higher sampling rates within Pro Tools are a dealbreaker then your only choice is an 002, 002 Rack or TDM. If not, then keep your 001 and route other pre's and A/D converters to the digital ports. The other option of course is to drop Pro Tools entirely and go with another software and hardware combo. Good luck.
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  #3  
Old 12-17-2003, 10:05 AM
jmisner jmisner is offline
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Default Re: Hope for non-digidesign hardware compatibility

[QUOTE]
Hello. You can already use other converters and mic pres and connect to any Digidesign hardware through the digital inputs. A very large part of installed TDM systems bypass the Digidesign hardware completely and just use the software.

Thanks Froyo - So if I was to go with TDM - what would be the minimal digidesign hardware components I would need? Just the soundcard? Is that possible? And then get my own converters, pres, and midi interface to plug into their sound card? Or do I need to atleast have the TDM hardware first? I'm confused...

I'd rather not change platforms, but I also want more flexibility. Thanks ~

JM
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  #4  
Old 12-17-2003, 10:44 AM
froyo froyo is offline
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Default Re: Hope for non-digidesign hardware compatibility

Hello. Let me just expand on some basic concepts. A long time ago, around '99, there were no LE and TDM systems as we know them today. There was just Pro Tools. You could have an 888 interface or an AMIII card. The software was identical.

Theoretically, you could get an AMIII card and Pro Tools 3.x and run that. In today's market I would suspect that would be hard to find. Basically your options for a TDM system maybe as old as a d24 system running Pro Tools 4.x all the way up to an HD Accel system running version 6.x. These all involve at least one interface, the 882 being the smallest. I don't know what the old d24 systems go for nowadays on eBay and such, but I would suspect a couple of thousand at least. And even if you get a fairly old system, you may not be able to use version 6.x. I believe the oldest system that can run 6.x or higher are Mix systems and those are hovering between $3K or above. If 32 tracks is not a bother go for an 002 Rack at about $1200.
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Old 12-17-2003, 01:48 PM
jmisner jmisner is offline
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Default Re: Hope for non-digidesign hardware compatibility

Froyo, so if I'm tracking with you, I can't just get an HD card, PT 6 and then use my own converters and pres etc. ? I'd need to by a digi interface as well? The cheapest HD is like $7,000 correct?

JM

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  #6  
Old 12-17-2003, 07:55 PM
rpowell rpowell is offline
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Default Re: Hope for non-digidesign hardware compatibility

Quote:
Froyo, so if I'm tracking with you, I can't just get an HD card, PT 6 and then use my own converters and pres etc. ? I'd need to by a digi interface as well? The cheapest HD is like $7,000 correct?

JM


Theoretically, you can buy a single used Mix card w/software (I've seen them for less than $2k) and an interface. It would not be a very powerful system without additional Mix farm cards. For interfaces, a used ADATbridge for $700 or so will allow you to use any ADAT lightpipe equipped external A/D, you could also get 888|24 or 882|20 used for $1200 or less, or Apogee AD8000 with an AMBUS card and D/A card, which does not need an additional Digidesign interface. For more power you could add Mix farm cards (They run around $1.4-$1.5k each used). Mix limits you to 48kHz sample rate.

The HD systems are more powerful and will go up to 192kHz sample rate. The used market is not flooded with these cards yet although I have seen the a few HD cores for around $4k. There are a handful of the "old" HD add-on process cards (pre-Accel) on the market for around $1k which is a real bargain IMO since the new Accel cards cost over 3 times as much with only twice the power. You have to use the HD interfaces (96 I/O, 192 I/O, 192 digital I/O) unless you get one or more Apogee Rosetta 800's and can wait for the upcoming cards which do not require a Digidesign interface.

RP
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  #7  
Old 12-17-2003, 09:12 PM
jmisner jmisner is offline
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Default Re: Hope for non-digidesign hardware compatibility

Thanks RPowell. I'm sort of getting it. Could I buy just an HD 1 Core card and then buy my own converters and pres? Or would I need the card and something like the 192 Digital I/O or the 96i? My main confusion is with all the different HD cards and their function. Do they all work together?

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  #8  
Old 12-18-2003, 04:51 AM
froyo froyo is offline
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Default Re: Hope for non-digidesign hardware compatibility

Hello. I think the source of your confusion is with the cards. Pro Tools needs a hardware interface to run, period. Whether that be an Mbox, 001, 002, 002 Rack, 888, 96, 192, etc. That's the hardware interface. Any LE or TDM system will need a hardware interface to run. Native systems get their processing power (DSP) from the computer, TDM systems get it from the cards. But you need an interface for the software to run at all. It won't open unless the interface is connected. Now all TDM systems get one 'Core' card bundled with any interface you buy. Additional DSP cards can be purchased separately. But if you buy the cards and no interface the software will not run, it simply will not open. If you need any additional info go to the Digidesign main page. Then look at the HD and Mix systems info there. Good luck.
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  #9  
Old 12-18-2003, 11:56 AM
96k 96k is offline
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Default Re: Hope for non-digidesign hardware compatibility

[Quote)

Now all TDM systems get one 'Core' card bundled with any interface you buy.

[End of quote]

With all due respect, is this definetly correct Froyo? Is it an offer based solely in the US?

I had a good look at the relevant parts of the site but couldn't find any info to back it up...
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  #10  
Old 12-18-2003, 12:07 PM
jmisner jmisner is offline
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Default Re: Hope for non-digidesign hardware compatibility

Yeah, I don't know if that's correct. It doesn't seem logical. The HD 1 core card lists for $7,995 or something and their most expensive interface (192) is around $3,400. I can't imagaine they would include a card with every interface. However, if that's true, I'm all over that!

JM
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