Pro tools 8 track meters???

[barismanco123]

Hi folks - like all of us here I'm new to PT8 but I am a little disgruntled at the new numbers in the mix window that correspond with the audio meters.

On the left side of the track o.odb is about 3/4 up and on the right side of the track 0.0db is at the very top of the meter.

Why is this - is it to refeerence something?If so what?

Where should I be looking for example in a 24 bit session to make sure I'm not getting too hot or even worse clipping?Is it the 0.0db on the left of the meter or the 0.0 on the right of the meter???????????

Please please someone tell me how stupid I'm probably being and let me know.

Regards, Baris

[axiom]

Originally Posted by barismanco123

Where should I be looking for example in a 24 bit session to make sure I'm not getting too hot or even worse clipping?Is it the 0.0db on the left of the meter or the 0.0 on the right of the meter???????????

The numbers on the left apply to the fader. The numbers on the right go with the meter. Clipping would be indicated on the meter.

I think that's what you are asking for.

[barismanco123]

I think I may understand what you are saying?

So I should be concerned when the audio is close to peaking on the numbers to the right side of the meter?
In fact it clearly shows a red peak light on the right side if I hit 0.0 db.

Am I getting this.

But if that is the case then why do we have the numbers on the left of the meter but when I exceed 0.0 db there it does "not" tell me I'm peaking

Am I peaking???

The 2 refrence levels are throwing me off still.

Is it possible for further explanation please?

Regards and thanks, Baris

[axiom]

The numbers on the left are for the volume fader that you move up and down. The 0 there is unity gain, where the volume corresponds to the original volume of the channel. You can adjust this up or down from -infinity to +12. The actual numbers here have little to do with the LEDs you see to the right. The fader changes the channel volume.

The numbers to the right of the LEDs are for the level meter. This is the important one for clipping info. These LEDs and numbers show the signal level.

[albee1952]

My recommendation is; always record at 24 bit(chosen when you create a session) and get the meters up to halfway or a little higher. In digital, there is no need to "slam" the meters as you would in analog recording. While you can hit the red on PT meters and not hear distortion(I always try to avoid it as a clipped track(that DOES distort) sounds horrible and I would rather record a little on the low side and boost the track later than risk a digital "over". Also, if you have a large session(like more than 24 tracks) and they are all recorded hot, your mix can easily clip the mix bus "in the box" and give you a bounced mix that sounds crunchy(the solution is to lower the volume of every audio track by the same amount; usually 3-4 db). By only lowering the audio tracks (and VI tracks) your mix should stay the same but softer so you don't run out of headroom. If you use a master track and it is showing red, there you are.

[barismanco123]

Hey guys thanks for the response so far it's very informative.

But I have a degree in Sound Engineering and Design and studied very hard to understand what you are saying now.
Also I have studied the DUC for a while now and have read a lot about intersample peaks and the bus architechture of Pro Tools and the gain staging development of plug-ins inputs and the whole floating point philosophy/fact.

I have also read various bolgs by Charles Dye regarding this matter too, to name a few.

My question is more simple - "But if that is the case then why do we have the numbers on the left of the meter but when I exceed 0.0 db there it does "not" tell me I'm peaking

Am I peaking???"

"The 2 refrence levels are throwing me off still."

It's this simple - I understand a decent amount regarding mixing but clearly I'm no guru (I wish) but I am really not too sure what on earth the number on the left hand side of the meter represents?

On the right side I can gather now that it represents the full 24 bits or 144db of signal we have in a 24 bit session which I always use, even if I am mixing at 16 bits to allow for my plugs to operate at a more precise level.

But "what the hell does the left hand side relate too - is it PRE FADER METERING LEVELS is it what?

I have no idea, it doesnt appear to be in the reference guide or the whats new in PT8 guide and it was never there in PT7.4.

What I would like and I know it's a lot to ask out of anyones time other than the Digitech guys as it their jobs is for an exact answer as to exactly what the (mainly left hand side) 2 number sytems actually relate to in the mixing domain?????????????

Please if anyone could let me know it would be great, it's not that I'm stupid it's just I am missing something very obvious to me here.

Kind regards, Baris

[axiom]

Originally Posted by barismanco123

But "what the hell does the left hand side relate too - is it PRE FADER METERING LEVELS is it what?

It is channel volume, relative to unity gain (0 on the scale). The numbers are there to show you how much the volume changes when you move the fader. For example, to raise the volume +12db, you push the fader from zero all the way up.

The LED meters do not use the numbers to their left, only the numbers on the right.

As you move the fader, the channel volume will change in the channel volume box. This value corresponds to the numbers on the side of the fader.

[barismanco123]

I get it I think then - the left hand side is like relative changes and the right hand side is an absolute value such as 144db.24 bit, it is always that and it doesnt change but on the left it is just to show you how many db you are changing but only as a guide line, like on a hi fi sytem????

I know too many question but I want to be sure.

Regards, Baris

[axiom]

Originally Posted by barismanco123

I get it I think then - the left hand side is like relative changes and the right hand side is an absolute value such as 144db.24 bit, it is always that and it doesnt change but on the left it is just to show you how many db you are changing but only as a guide line, like on a hi fi sytem????

I think that is the correct answer.

[accession]

Originally Posted by barismanco123

I get it I think then - the left hand side is like relative changes and the right hand side is an absolute value such as 144db.24 bit, it is always that and it doesnt change but on the left it is just to show you how many db you are changing but only as a guide line, like on a hi fi sytem????

I know too many question but I want to be sure.

Regards, Baris

Nope, I'd say there's a bit more to soak up. :)

Firstly thing to consider, is...

The level meters only have only *one* set of markings, located on the right of each meter itself, with 0dBFS at the very top. That's what the meters should be referenced to. There are *no* other meter markings. That's it. When it hits the top, it's peaking.

And that concludes the discussion re the meter markers.

Now the other markings are located right alongside the fader. At risk of stating the obvious, a fader is not a level meter, and as such, the markings for one does not correspond with the other.

So what's with the fader markings? 0dB as already stated relates to Unity Gain, or the point the fader must be set to to ensure any audio entering it will exit at precisely the same level, no softer, no louder. If one was to set the fader lower, say -15dB, then any audio entering the fader is 'turned down' by 15dB. If the fader is pushed up to +12dB, then any audio entering the fader will now by louder than it was entering it, 12dB louder to be precise. Now if your meters are set post fader (or you're looking at the master fader's levels) then you'll see this +/- dB change made by the fader affect the output meters. But otherwise their relationship is irrelevant.

The point is, you shouldn't look at the faders' markings when looking at the corresponding meter's level. It's not supposed to correspond. It's more a coincidence that they're remotely close to each other, which is a consequence of the mixer window being built with faders alongside the meters. Just look at the meter's markings (and there's only one set of markings that correspond with the meters), and you're set.

Making more sense now?