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  #21  
Old 11-01-2021, 06:59 AM
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Default Re: 5.1 Meter

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Originally Posted by its2loud View Post
I do it every day and deliver with zero issues to major networks and clients.
I also cook my own food despite insurance companies tell me kitchen is the most dangerous placen in your house...
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  #22  
Old 11-01-2021, 06:59 AM
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Default Re: 5.1 Meter

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Yes, but realtime bounce would reveal TO YOU that something is going south.

...
Again, not really. There is nothing "going south" at your end. Your bounce can be perfect, the 5.1 interleaved file is perfect and clearly defined in the headers and any written documentation but some other system down the line misinterprets the interleaved format channel mapping.

Back to my original comment. Don't ever deliver just a 5.1 interleaved file. If specifically requested in the delivery specs, I will also include the discrete files so that if things get messed up, someone has a reasonable chance of referencing what the channels SHOULD be.

Almost anything can happen once a mix leaves your system, especially in broadcast or theater. I once had a 30 second jingle go to air in mono with just the left side. That was from a 1/4 stereo tape delivery in the 1980's :)
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  #23  
Old 11-01-2021, 07:02 AM
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Default Re: 5.1 Meter

Yes. If the delivery spec says it needs to be interleaved, you need to double-check it leaves you as it should. Whether you compose that interleaved file on PT bounce or outside of PT, you need to make sure.

... and even then (and this is your point) you cannot be sure its playback is perfect.
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  #24  
Old 11-01-2021, 07:10 AM
its2loud its2loud is offline
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Default Re: 5.1 Meter

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Originally Posted by JFreak View Post
I also cook my own food despite insurance companies tell me kitchen is the most dangerous placen in your house...
I’m not understanding this analogy but where or when has it ever been proven that offline bounces are dangerous?

If you don’t trust them, that’s fine. But why spread your fears to the community with no basis or fact that offline bounces create inferior files.

If they were inferior or bad I would think we’d be hearing a lot more horror stories on this platform or others.

Opinions are one thing. Facts are another.

Not trying to be disrespectful here Janne. You have a lot of insightful information and guidance on the DUC. However, fear mongering is not helpful and blanket statements like “ You cannot just offline bounce to interleaved and hope everything is good” do nothing but create fear in doing something that is completely safe and harmless. I have news for you, glitches can happen in real time records as well. It doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do them.
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  #25  
Old 11-01-2021, 07:19 AM
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Default Re: 5.1 Meter

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Originally Posted by its2loud View Post
If you don’t trust them, that’s fine. But why spread your fears to the community with no basis or fact that offline bounces create inferior files.
I am one of those dinosaurs who listen to everything I send to anyone. Whicn means offline bounce requires listening to it after the bounce, and the time taken for offline bounce is wasted time. Also consider if you pick up something while realtime listening to the bounce, you can abort the bounce, fix it, bounce again. Saves time.

I would never send anything offline bounced to anyone without listening to it myself first. But of course, opinions do vary. That is my kitchen analogy. It is very dangerous sending anything offline bounced, especially if it is greater-than-stereo.
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  #26  
Old 11-01-2021, 11:12 AM
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Default Re: 5.1 Meter

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Originally Posted by danyg View Post
Waves has a Plugin called DTS Down Mix, it is

LR C LFE Ls Rs

Seems like that is a format called DTS
DTS channel order: L R Ls Rs C LFE
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  #27  
Old 11-01-2021, 12:36 PM
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Default Re: 5.1 Meter

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Originally Posted by its2loud View Post
I’m not understanding this analogy but where or when has it ever been proven that offline bounces are dangerous?
It has happened quite a few times in our experience where a bounce that should have sounded exactly like it did when we listened just prior to bouncing ends up including some anomaly that ruins the bounce. You only need to to occur once before making a rule that *every* bounce will be examined before going out to the client. Once your client receives an erroneous mix, that's your reputation. They couldn't care less if it "shouldn't have happened and wasn't our fault." If PT glitches and you ship the glitch, it's YOUR fault.

To fight this is to open yourself up to unnecessary risks, and what service would that be to those reading this forum? Because you've never experienced an issue doesn't mean that no one else has, or, more importantly, will.
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  #28  
Old 11-02-2021, 07:13 PM
smurfyou smurfyou is offline
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Default Re: 5.1 Meter

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Originally Posted by devinemke View Post
when bouncing/exporting, regardless of what order your bus/outputs are set, the bounced/exported interleaved WAV will be Film ordered.
Since V12 (or 11 maybe?) PT outputs interleaved BWF in SMPTE order. If you re-import that file it will show in the clip list in Film order and a 5.1 track will be in Film order. But the file itself is SMPTE.

For some reason, last I checked, an interleaved AIFF will be in Film order. But no-one should be using AIFF in 2021 anyway....

It's not so simple to say don't export interleaved files when that's what is requested for delivery.
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  #29  
Old 11-02-2021, 07:16 PM
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Default Re: 5.1 Meter

Also FWIW

SMPTE is easier for routing since it's in logical pairs.

I prefer my meters in Film order because visually the C meter is between L and R. Also that's how the last hardware meter bridge I worked on was configured so it's stuck in my brain.
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  #30  
Old 11-03-2021, 12:34 AM
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Default Re: 5.1 Meter

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Originally Posted by smurfyou View Post
Since V12 (or 11 maybe?) PT outputs interleaved BWF in SMPTE order. If you re-import that file it will show in the clip list in Film order and a 5.1 track will be in Film order. But the file itself is SMPTE.

For some reason, last I checked, an interleaved AIFF will be in Film order.
@smurfyou : i have no reason to doubt your claim, but i am genuinely curious: how have you been able to determine this? have you been able to inspect the MetaData of a PT outputed 5.1 interleaved Broadcast WAV file in some other app outside of PT to see that it is in fact SMPTE ordered?

and likewise check a PT outputed 5.1 interleaved AIFF to verify that is Film ordered?

again, just curious to see if this is in fact the current default PT behavior.

thanks.
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