In Response to the Response to Pro Tools HD 10 Feedback...

[Dism]

Originally Posted by Trevoire520

All I've heard for years is "we want 64 bit, TDM needs to be ditched or replaced it's too old and not powerful enough"

And then when Avid decide to get ready for moving to 64 bit and upgrade their processing cards everyone has a total [bleep][bleep][bleep][bleep] fit.
The customer base seem to want PT to move forward to improve the power and quality of the system, while simultaneously insisting that all the old technology continues to be integrated until the end of time. Surely these are mutually exclusive demands?

Oh there's no doubt that this time would come. I'm not arguing that it's time to move on.

It's that TDM users are expected to pay the same price as everyone else for a less than full featured software on hardware that will be unsupported in the next version.

[Chingy]

The demo trial AVID is offering is just half of the industry standard (a term AVID likes to throw around quite a bit). Almost every other DAW offers a 30-day trial.

[Craig F]

As long as Max dosen't do another video presentation
His Weeble Wobble movement is most annoying

and despite the marketing they can stay down

[kdramsey]

Originally Posted by Dism

Please. Just stop.

Your market speak is failing you. It's far too easy to see through, and you have yet to prove you are listening to us at all.



It doesn't matter what you believe at Avid. I'm betting 48 hours ago there were a couple hundred people who believed they were still going to be employed today.



Read the article, and the quote. He almost never directly references Pro Tools HD. Way to edit for your own benefit.



Not to discredit Marty or anyone else at the The Dub Stage... but is this really the majority demographic you're trying to reach? How many PT users really need to link up to 12 systems together for a "Huge Feature Film?"



This should have been out from the start. Why Pro Tools has never had demos before is beyond me.



Now this is the hilarious part.

Up until now, you've told us how much of a great "value" PTHD10 is at $999. This is like a bloody infomercial.

"We're giving you this $999 value for just... $599! And if you call now, you get free tech support for a year (just ignore the dozens of tech support guys we let go of yesterday) and the opportunity to get the next upgrade for free! This opportunity is not available in our webstore or at any of our online retailers! So act now! (Why is that, exactly? Couldn't be to intentionally confuse people into buying the $999 upgrade because they don't know any better. )"

Why do I say opportunity?

Well, what happens if your upgrade runs up after a year, and 3 months later the new version of Pro Tools comes out? Guess what! You're paying at least another $599 for that update!

Or how about this scenario... what say you paid for the next $599 support package after your first year runs up... but then next year the upgrade price is only $400 for HD users? Won't you feel dumb. Although, I guess this update is just telling of future prices to never be reasonable again.

Now, beyond logical real-world scenarios...

If this $599 deal is the greatest deal ever... what's the point of even charging the $999? Obviously it makes no sense to pay an extra $400 to get the same product with less support. Realistically, the pricing should be completely the other way around. $599 for just the software, and $999 for software + support. Otherwise, there's no reason for there to be a $999 price at all, other than to confuse, infuriate and no less than mislead users into paying it. That's all there is to it.

Plus, this still provides no comfort for the TDM crowd. They still don't get a better deal for getting the axe. They pay the same price as everyone else to get about half of the new features, and a guaranteed life expectancy at the end of the year. A possible free upgrade is of no use to them, since the next version of Pro Tools won't be compatible anyway.

Plus.... this part is important:



What about HD8? What happens after this year is up? Why can't I buy this plan any time I want to? Shouldn't there be a 24/7/365 support deal?

You spend the whole first paragraph defending what a great price $999 is, then shave off $400 to make the Pavlovian point. To make us drool. But if that's the case... it can't possibly be worth $999. I know how marketing works, I've been trained by 3 different companies in how to sell products which are exorbitantly priced. You always tell them a higher price first, work in the "value," and then drop it right before you show them where to sign. And that my friends, is how you sell a set of kitchen knives for $1200, and get 50% commission. This is sales 101.

The point to take away from all of this:

Nothing has changed. Avid has not "listened" to the community. We are simply being exposed to a program that already existed in the first place, but was kept quiet until users complained about the $999 to the boiling point. Now they come along and reassure you that they are listening. This is not a new, better deal. It's the same deal, they are just now telling us about it.

Shady.

If you re-hired DTS to come here and tell us about it... maybe it would be a different story...

Originally Posted by Dism

Demo trials are standard in the software industry. The fact that they are just learning this now is proof that they aren't paying attention. It shouldn't take a public outcry just to get a 14 demo...

Max is letting us know of an offer that existed in the first place, but exists nowhere on any web store... So how are people to know about it unless they actually ask why they are expected to pay 999? It's shady business, and extemely misleading. Especially since they are proving that it's not work 999 at all if they can offer the same thing with extra support for 400 less.

I'm not disputing that $599 is a decent deal, but it's just proof that there's no reason to charge 999 in the first place. If they offered the support plan FIRST to HD users, no one would have complained. The 999 price point is extremely shady.

I'm still waiting for Steinberg to give me my standard demo trial of Nuendo!

But seriously,

There are several support contracts available... If you own an HD system you should know that because what were you planning to do if one of your HD cards became toast?? Granted the $599 contract does not include hardware exchange but some of the other ones do include advance hardware exchange. It is important to know these options are available.

The dealer you purchased your system from should have told you about the support contracts that were available? If you did buy it direct from Avid then I agree they dropped the ball not telling you about support options.

I have had my system since 2008 (bought through Sweetwater) and it came with the first year support contract for free. It included any software upgrades for free. I kept the support contract renewed in 2009 and 2010 but then I admit I forgot to renew it in 2011 but that is my own fault.

On another message board Max did talk about the $599 support contract the day after PT 10 was announced at AES. I am not sure why he waited so long to mention it here... This is Avid's official message board after all.

[crashboombam]

Originally Posted by dism

oh there's no doubt that this time would come. I'm not arguing that it's time to move on.

It's that tdm users are expected to pay the same price as everyone else for a less than full featured software on hardware that will be unsupported in the next version.

+1000000000

[Benoni]

man what has happened here in the past week. This should be a happy time, we have a new version of Pro Tools, we have a new plugin format (AAX) we have clip gain (awesome), 32 bit float, and 64 bit is said to be coming in the next major update. This should be happy times.....

Not every one will be happy all the time, hell I think the pricing is crazy myself, but what can Avid do to make the majority of people happy, and make enough money to keep developing new products?

I think they should get DTS back, but maybe he doesnt want to come back, maybe he will find a better job that pays more.

Avid does seem to be in disarray, Im not sure how many of you are aware, but in the updated Eleven Rack + Pro Tools bundle that comes with PT9 and a free upgrade to PT10, and the Eleven Rack Expansion Pack, they completely over looked the fact that you cannot correctly use the 11R Editor Window in Pro Tools because the ERXP depends on updated UI plugins that are only available when you buy the ERXP and it is deposited in your Avid account

Being that the ERXP is PRE-Installed on the new Eleven Rack bundles they cannot just give out free downloads to the ERXP because it is a dual installer that includes both the UI updater and the Firmware updater - and the Eleven Racks themselves already have updated firmwares

It seems like the guys at the top are not consulting with the guys who actually work on these products before they just make a decision. Strange.

[RussUK]

http://www.airusersblog.com/home-pag...it-get-an.html

#reclaimprotools

[Fidelis]

Originally Posted by RussUK

http://www.airusersblog.com/home-pag...it-get-an.html

#reclaimprotools

Couldn't say it better Russ! Best post ever since AES. Thank you.

Ricardo.

[johnnyv]

Originally Posted by Dism

Max is letting us know of an offer that existed in the first place, but exists nowhere on any web store... So how are people to know about it unless they actually ask why they are expected to pay 999? It's shady business, and extemely misleading. Especially since they are proving that it's not worth 999 at all if they can offer the same thing with extra support for 400 less.

I'm not disputing that $599 is a decent deal, but it's just proof that there's no reason to charge 999 in the first place. If they offered the support plan FIRST to HD users, no one would have complained. The 999 price point is extremely shady.

Just from a "common sense" perspective...one would think that if:

Upgrades + 1 year tech support = $599

That:

Upgrades WITHOUT tech support would equal LESS THAN $599.00.

Instead:

Upgrades WITHOUT tech support = $999.00

It's a very odd business position that seemingly makes no sense.

[Chancey]

Originally Posted by kdramsey

I'm still waiting for Steinberg to give me my standard demo trial of Nuendo!

You don't have to wait, it's right on the website, has been for some time. Way more than 14 days, 400 working hours uncrippled demo.
http://www.steinberg.net/en/products...l_version.html