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  #21  
Old 09-08-2022, 03:49 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
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Default Re: Interfaces considered a "step up" from the Avid I|O?

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Originally Posted by Eric Lambert View Post
MTRX options start at $5k, which isn't making sense at the moment. I can upgrade the current Avid I|O via the Black Lion mods for $2K. I'm not seeing evidence that the MTRX would sound better, though some have called the Black Lion the "best upgrade they've ever made" in their studio. And the current interface has the other digital options for which I'm currently configured.

I think I'll need to check the MTRX off the list, but I'm not convinced that the Black Lion mod is the winner either.

So, the Apogee is still in play. And I like what I'd heard from a friend's Antelope, but those are so problematic for PT (another story) that I don't want to open that box.

If what I ultimately want are a couple of improved inputs for main mics and guitar, maybe I simply look at a great 4-channel A/D and feed it into the current Avid I|O digitally...
Black Lion's marketing of getting endorsers to say their stuff is great seems to work for them. I assume many of those are paid endorsements. I've *not* heard their HD mods, none of their other mods every impressed me. Certainly not vs. upgrading to a better interface. Sorry, I'm a cynic about Black Lion.

There are just so many interfaces out there. And while I can be a shiny toy addict as much as anybody, I probably would want to spend money on preamps, microphones, better monitors, etc.

If you are going to switch interfaces I personally would consider all non-DigiLink options, DigiLink is just old, and Avid strains to support it at times. Maybe get rid of HD Native, the HD I/O(s?) and even sell the Ultimate subscription and lower costs, putting that saving into a new interface? But if it's audio quality that is the focus then maybe back to the preamps and outboard gear? And if you do want a new interface can you borrow/trial one from a dealer to see if it sounds better for your use?
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  #22  
Old 09-08-2022, 04:48 PM
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Eric Lambert Eric Lambert is offline
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Default Re: Interfaces considered a "step up" from the Avid I|O?

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Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
Black Lion's marketing of getting endorsers to say their stuff is great seems to work for them. I assume many of those are paid endorsements. I've *not* heard their HD mods, none of their other mods every impressed me. Certainly not vs. upgrading to a better interface. Sorry, I'm a cynic about Black Lion.

There are just so many interfaces out there. And while I can be a shiny toy addict as much as anybody, I probably would want to spend money on preamps, microphones, better monitors, etc.

If you are going to switch interfaces I personally would consider all non-DigiLink options, DigiLink is just old, and Avid strains to support it at times. Maybe get rid of HD Native, the HD I/O(s?) and even sell the Ultimate subscription and lower costs, putting that saving into a new interface? But if it's audio quality that is the focus then maybe back to the preamps and outboard gear? And if you do want a new interface can you borrow/trial one from a dealer to see if it sounds better for your use?
The guys I've talked to about Black Lion/Avid HD I|Os weren't endorsers, just regular folks. I trust that their opinions are honest, but I can't say that their opinions would match mine. I'd have to mention that I've not heard anything but positive reviews of this particular mad.

However, yes, it might be a good time to make a larger switch, away from Avid's protocols, and that little Native box that keeps falling off my desk and has a limited lifespan anyway.

All my external gear is top shelf, so the weak link now is the converter. The Avid interface isn't weak by any stretch, I'm just merely seeking that ability to get the ultra-detailed recordings I sometimes hear in my living room from audiophile recordings.

I've added the Lynx Aurora (n) to the mix. I'm not sure how I'd forgotten that puppy. Great rep and a slick company.

I do think demoing a unit, of some sort, from Vintage King will be in the cards. The LA store isn't terribly far from me and I have a good relationship with them. This thread is designed to give me a shortlist to discuss with them, and it's been helpful so far.
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  #23  
Old 09-08-2022, 05:01 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
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Default Re: Interfaces considered a "step up" from the Avid I|O?

Eric sounds good. I do like VK sales/support. Wish I lived close to their LA store.

I have some concerns with **** (Edit - corrected, no my bad memory) products and support after hearing about experiences of folks. Others praise their support staff. Wish I could find a thread I was thinking about that had folks commenting about their concerns/past issues. BScout did you post stuff about that at one time?

Last edited by Darryl Ramm; 09-08-2022 at 06:06 PM.
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  #24  
Old 09-08-2022, 05:53 PM
BScout BScout is offline
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Default Re: Interfaces considered a "step up" from the Avid I|O?

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I have some concerns with Lynx products and support after hearing about experiences of folks. Others praise their support staff. Wish I could find a thread I was thinking about that had folks commenting about their concerns/past issues. BScout did you post stuff about that at one time?
Lynx makes good stuff (and reliable though they run very warm.) However, the Aurora(n) series leaves much to be desired for the DA/AD. They're just not up there with the Symphony Mk2 cards or MTRX units or Merging.
Which is strange because they do have the Hilo. I'd say the HD I/O converters are better than Aurora(n).

My one sh*t-list company is Antelope. Never to be on any buy list. Terrible support, terrible management software of their hardware, terrible reliability. Their interest is only to sell you more things.
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  #25  
Old 09-08-2022, 06:04 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
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Default Re: Interfaces considered a "step up" from the Avid I|O?

Sorry, I brain farted, it was BScouts (and other users) Antelope comments I was recalling.
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  #26  
Old 09-08-2022, 09:36 PM
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Eric Lambert Eric Lambert is offline
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Default Re: Interfaces considered a "step up" from the Avid I|O?

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Originally Posted by BScout View Post
Lynx makes good stuff (and reliable though they run very warm.) However, the Aurora(n) series leaves much to be desired for the DA/AD. They're just not up there with the Symphony Mk2 cards or MTRX units or Merging.
Which is strange because they do have the Hilo. I'd say the HD I/O converters are better than Aurora(n).

My one sh*t-list company is Antelope. Never to be on any buy list. Terrible support, terrible management software of their hardware, terrible reliability. Their interest is only to sell you more things.
Oh lord... I wouldn't buy a mousepad from Antelope. They make such amazing hardware but lack the technical savvy to support it. It's a shame, really, but that's how it has been for many years and if things have improved I can't see it.

That the Aurora might be less than the Avid I|O is highly surprising to read. I'm not saying it's not true, but this is the first time amongst many reports that I've heard such a thing. Typically, it's the opposite. Just another reason to try one for myself.
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  #27  
Old 09-09-2022, 12:26 AM
BScout BScout is offline
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Default Re: Interfaces considered a "step up" from the Avid I|O?

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That the Aurora might be less than the Avid I|O is highly surprising to read. I'm not saying it's not true, but this is the first time amongst many reports that I've heard such a thing. Typically, it's the opposite. Just another reason to try one for myself.
Let's go by the numbers: THD+N is worse on the Aurora. The dynamic range is much worse on the Aurora (for both ADC and DAC). The Aurora is 20dBu headroom, the HD I/O is 22dBu (not like the MTRX/Merging/Symphony that are 24dBu far from the consumer range which at 20dBu is the Aurora).

If the Aurora was lower priced, it'd make sense. But competing, its price range, it hasn't left its predecessor.
Meanwhile, the Hilo is everything the Aurora(n) should have been.
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  #28  
Old 09-09-2022, 12:47 AM
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Default Re: Interfaces considered a "step up" from the Avid I|O?

THD means nothing today. Only spec I would judge by numbers is AD dynamics for recording. Currently sweet spot is 124dB, as in 20dB headroom below full scale, but would not mind if the converter had full 144dB dynamics that a 24bit fixed-point audio file can store.
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  #29  
Old 09-09-2022, 01:19 AM
BScout BScout is offline
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Default Re: Interfaces considered a "step up" from the Avid I|O?

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THD means nothing today. Only spec I would judge by numbers is AD dynamics for recording. Currently sweet spot is 124dB, as in 20dB headroom below full scale, but would not mind if the converter had full 144dB dynamics that a 24bit fixed-point audio file can store.
20dbU or 24dbU is an analogue measure of input (or output.) There is not the concept of "124 dB". That's a limitation of noise floor (which goes back to THD+N.) A 20dbU converter can have any any type of input DR (119 for the Aurora(n)) dBU sets peak but it doesn't set floor once in the digital conversion-side.
And there are zero converters on 144dB "dynamic range". In a purely digital world, sure. But max is (practically) ~130dB. A 24 dBU or 30 dBu converter still is limited by circuit physics. Which is why THD+N is the limiting factor
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  #30  
Old 09-09-2022, 01:37 AM
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Default Re: Interfaces considered a "step up" from the Avid I|O?

I know 144dB converter does not exist -YET- but there is no reason why it could not be done in the future. Back in 16bit days pro converters were about 120dB (a.k.a. 20bit) which was the reason for tracking hotter than hell. Thus my point of sweet spot at 124dB which allows nice headroom while tracking without losing a bit (pun intended).

Almost totally off-topic, but if pro audio followed what can currently be done we would be using 20bit 64kHz sessions. Marketing says otherwise.
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