Amp simms never sound the same as before recording

[Eric Lambert]

I would *highly* suggest giving the 14-day trial a try.

I don't say this lightly. I've been more or less obsessed with the hunt for a sim that can hang with the hardware (I recorded with a PDI-03 for years, as you do, and now use an OX with amps from Komet, Two Rock, Schroeder, Bad Cat and Suhr, so tough competition for software). I don't like compromising where I don't have to, as I'm sure you don't, which is another hill for sims to climb. The popular ones from years ago were thin, they felt odd while playing, and they lacked weight. I absolutely hated that plugin genre for quite a while.

Without going into the full journey, I'm at a place today where I feel comfortable using *certain* sims on high profile projects, the Benson being one of them. And, yes, SpeakerMix Pro is key. I like Benson's IRs, but there's an undeniable improvement once you switch over.

I've mentioned it often that getting a strong signal into the computer is crucial. I've gone through a slew of DIs and pres and in many cases the signal presented to the sim was weak, and the amp'd sound suffered. Now I use a ZeroCap cable to alleviate capacitance (high end loss) in the guitar cable, a Sunday Driver to help with signal loss within the pedal board, a switcher to take unused pedals out of the chain, an NPNG Diehlio as a DI, and either an API or Avedis pre just prior to the A/D. Serious stuff, and it makes a difference.

All of that is just to say that I have no interest in selling the technology to someone who doesn't like it, but I've done a lot of homework and found what does and doesn't work, and there *IS* software that works. If I can offer a shortcut to that sound to someone else that's a win, but if it doesn't that's cool, too. The statement (not quoting anyone) 'amp sims aren't up to snuff' just isn't accurate, imo, anymore, not if you approach it wisely.

Get the demo -- I'd be surprised if it doesn't impress you.

[ejsongs]

Originally Posted by Eric Lambert

I would *highly* suggest giving the 14-day trial a try.

I don't say this lightly. I've been more or less obsessed with the hunt for a sim that can hang with the hardware (I recorded with a PDI-03 for years, as you do, and now use an OX with amps from Komet, Two Rock, Schroeder, Bad Cat and Suhr, so tough competition for software). I don't like compromising where I don't have to, as I'm sure you don't, which is another hill for sims to climb. The popular ones from years ago were thin, they felt odd while playing, and they lacked weight. I absolutely hated that plugin genre for quite a while.

Without going into the full journey, I'm at a place today where I feel comfortable using *certain* sims on high profile projects, the Benson being one of them. And, yes, SpeakerMix Pro is key. I like Benson's IRs, but there's an undeniable improvement once you switch over.

I've mentioned it often that getting a strong signal into the computer is crucial. I've gone through a slew of DIs and pres and in many cases the signal presented to the sim was weak, and the amp'd sound suffered. Now I use a ZeroCap cable to alleviate capacitance (high end loss) in the guitar cable, a Sunday Driver to help with signal loss within the pedal board, a switcher to take unused pedals out of the chain, an NPNG Diehlio as a DI, and either an API or Avedis pre just prior to the A/D. Serious stuff, and it makes a difference.

All of that is just to say that I have no interest in selling the technology to someone who doesn't like it, but I've done a lot of homework and found what does and doesn't work, and there *IS* software that works. If I can offer a shortcut to that sound to someone else that's a win, but if it doesn't that's cool, too. The statement (not quoting anyone) 'amp sims aren't up to snuff' just isn't accurate, imo, anymore, not if you approach it wisely.

Get the demo -- I'd be surprised if it doesn't impress you.

I have no issues admitting that I was wrong about this. The speaker mix pro is a game changer to me. I for sure respect the efforts you went through to get where you are with amp sims and appreciate you sharing. Like you I have a decent amount of hardware that I can use on the way in. Oddly enough the cable I use is monster keyboard cable (I just like it) and am a firm believer that cabling makes a difference too.

I will check out the demos and thank you for turning me on to these….

Ej

[JFreak]

It is 100% psychological, and you can test it if you are in disbelief.

When you prepare to record, route your amp sim track to another track and record it (this is called print-to-track method). Later when you listen to the recorded track you have 100% identical take and if you hear a difference it is only in your brain.

Same goes for perceived latency, but it is another story.

[Carl Lie]

Interesting discussion in general on amp sims. I use Kemper mostly along with an OX box and sometimes a cab IR.

Even when the Kemper first came out there were not a lot of great sounding models. It took folks like Britt and Tone Junkie to put in the time to get great sounding amps. I saw a similar track with IR's.

Sometimes I'll get a clean"ish" guitar track from someone that's not quite what I'd like and a good IR is just the ticket.

It's awesome to have all these tools at our disposal and I agree, one can find their solution from various paths.

C

[massivekerry]

I had the same problem recording “real amps” years ago. For me it boiled down to hearing the strings and pick acoustically as I was playing. The playback from the mic against the speaker of the recorded amp never had that extra percussive hit that I was expecting (until I started also putting a mic on the strings). Eventually I got familiar with different amps, speakers, mics, rooms… and accepted that a recorded electric guitar is a performance and not necessarily “the sound”, and absolutely not “the sound” once it’s mixed in with the band.

Also, yes, late can be an issue today. I try to deal with both problems with closed-back headphones when tracking.

Now, a lot of amp sims have gotten better than they used to be, but your speaker IR will make or break you. That’s (again) a matter of learning, trying, familiarizing, making mistakes. I will say that having a clean DI signal (I like the Radials with the Drag control if a “guitar input” - ie UA, Apogee, isn’t available on the interface) and keep an eye on the high end going into the IR (and maybe the amp sim). Electric Guitars rarely have serious high frequencies, and the amps and speakers usually reflect that. Because a lot of (esp older) IR modeling involves a full-frequency sine wave sweep, the high end can be unrealistically bright and fizzy. This can often be tamed by attenuating the high frequency on input to the sim. Plugin Alliance/Nembrini sims generally come with this feature in the “FX Rack” section. Try that.

[Basslice]

Originally Posted by nednednerb

1) Latency during recording might affect your hearing of your performance. The way latency works for vocalists, it's deadly, messes up their rhythm. Voice needs very direct monitoring. Live playing, guitar amp simulation might sound, unlike for the vocalist, "thicker" or more "reverberant" in some way, because while playing, you have some real direct experience of the guitar, and an even slightly latent simm could have a perceptual affect here.

+1 This. If you are playing an monitoring at the same time, you can get a thickening or chorusing effect that you are probably optimizing before you record. When you play back, you are hearing the recording solo. I have noticed this and it took me a long time to figure out what was happening. It is not your imagination.

[noah330]

I have a lot of really great amps and don't care for sims. I do have an OX that's pretty great for anyone in my situation.

Sims can be ok for certain things but I prefer the real amps.

[EGS]

I like mic'ed cab PLUS DI/amp-sim.