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#1
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Automatic dithering in PT 12.5?
I normally record 88.2 and 24 bit in Pro Tools 12.5. I've been using Pro Tools for almost 6 years in a project studio, so while I'm far from an expert, I'm not a newbie either. A few weeks ago I was told by someone who is truly a Pro Tools expert that I don't need to dither when bouncing down from 88.2/24 to 44.1/16--that essentially Pro Tools does it automatically. Yet when I looked it up in the Pro Tools 12 reference manual, it said that I should dither (if I remember correctly; unfortunately, I'm not at a computer that has the manual). In fact, I believe it recommended dithering even if you weren't going to change sample rate and bit depth. Can anyone tell me exactly what's up with dithering? I understand there might be varying opinions out there, but does anyone actually know for sure? Thanks.
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#2
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Automatic dithering in PT 12.5?
Dither, when you change bit depth.
There is no other contrary opinion Tell the guy who suggests you don’t need to do it, you won’t and do it anyway
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Daniel HDX - PT12.5.1 - HD I/O 16x8x8 Win10-Pro (v1709)- 6 Core i7-6850k - ASUS X99 Deluxe ii D-Command Main Unit - 'Ole Blue http://www.sknoteaudio.com/ plugins rock and are affordable. Last edited by YYR123; 01-16-2018 at 09:17 AM. |
#3
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Re: Automatic dithering in PT 12.5?
Dither is just added noise. IMO if you have a hardware inserted, like an analog compressor, on your main bus you can perfectly skip dithering. The inherent noise of an analog device can act like a dither. But I repeat, this is my opinion.
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Mac Mini M1 | Mac OS 12.6.1 Monterey | Avid Carbon + 2x Carbon Pre | Pro Tools Studio 2024.3 |
#4
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Automatic dithering in PT 12.5?
It will take a smarter mind than mine to explain it but....
When you truncate the song the zeros in the silence add up to noise when the song is truncated (shrunk in bit depth), and not like a pleasing noise...like a hardware compressor So dither moves that noise (idk how but it does) over to the inaudible zone for human hearing. I read the Sonnox Limiter manual once or twice, about the matter. But like I said I don’t really understand it, but that’s why is supposed to happen and the benefits of it
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Daniel HDX - PT12.5.1 - HD I/O 16x8x8 Win10-Pro (v1709)- 6 Core i7-6850k - ASUS X99 Deluxe ii D-Command Main Unit - 'Ole Blue http://www.sknoteaudio.com/ plugins rock and are affordable. |
#5
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Re: Automatic dithering in PT 12.5?
and while we are at it, 88.2's entire raison d'être (that it's "simple math to go to 44.1") is nonsense.
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William Wittman Producer/Engineer (Cyndi Lauper, Joan Osborne, The Fixx, The Outfield, Hooters...Kinky Boots!) |
#6
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Re: Automatic dithering in PT 12.5?
Dither on bit depth changes downward (truncation.) Pro Tools auto-dithers in some instances (consolidating clips, for instance) but not bounce downs. Dither for the target bit rate by creating a master fader and throwing your dither plugin on that.
Don't need to dither if going up bit depth. Don't need to dither on sample rate changes (dithering before a SRC would just have the SRC applied to the dither which is a pointless exercise -- if the SRC is doing something special, it would have to have the dither built-in anyway because it'd need to be applied at a different stage in the processing and not the input file.) Dithering going from 32 floating point to fixed point is pretty much pointless because of the audio level we're talking about and the fact it isn't pure truncation. But you can do it in that case if you wish. But pointless. The one case it is obvious is going 24 fixed to 16 fixed. (your situation) so you should apply it if bouncing. If doing a clip consolidation or export clips as files, Pro Tools is already doing the dither (but not on a bounce down.) The matrix of applied dithers is in the user manual. |
#7
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Re: Automatic dithering in PT 12.5?
Pro Tools does apply dither automatically in some very specific situations that you don't need to worry about, such as after processing through upsampling plugins but before sending the audio to the Master Fader at the Session bit-depth. This is probably the source of your friend's confusion. You DO need to apply it (in some situations) when you bounce your files, because Pro Tools cannot guess what kind of dither you want or whether you want it at all, it depends on what you will do next with the file.
Fortunately, dither truly is one of the simplest decisions we have to make in our daily work. Unfortunately, there is still misinformation out there, much the same way some people believe the Earth might be flat... Basic Principles: 1. Dither is 100% mandatory when converting audio to a lower bit-depth, if you wish to maintain the highest degree of quality technically possible from your source. 2. Dither is useless for any other situation. 3. No operation (other than bit-rate reduction) shall ever be done after applying dither. No level changes, no fades, no mastering, no converting to mp3 after dither has been applied. If you have any doubts, please visit this link and see the video at the bottom of the page. The discussion on dither starts at 11:39, but honestly the whole video is incredibly important. Last edited by chrismeraz; 01-16-2018 at 04:06 AM. |
#8
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Re: Automatic dithering in PT 12.5?
Thanks to each of you who responded. Special thanks to chrismeraz for the link to that video. My question was answered.
Jim |
#9
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Re: Automatic dithering in PT 12.5?
Quote:
There is often confusion between BTD and Export; Pro Tools *will* apply dither when *exporting* a file to a lower bit depth, Pro Tools *will not* apply dither on a BTD, so the user must handle any required dither for if targeting a bit depth lower than the session depth. Quote:
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http://www.richbreen.com ---------------------------------------- Mac Studio / Ventura, PT 2023.12.HDX, Avid HD I/Os and Metric Halo ULN8, 3xS1/Dock Also running a Mac Studio Ultra / Ventura / HDX / MTRX / S6 |
#10
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Re: Automatic dithering in PT 12.5?
Thank you, Rich, especially for being specific about BTD & export as it relates to dithering.
Jim |
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