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  #1  
Old 05-01-2013, 03:30 PM
CPTK CPTK is offline
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Default [REQ] to Avid: Separate, Unbundled PT10 License for PT11 Upgrades

This morning I received a request to make an additional version of a project that I worked on last year. As I was going through my archives it occurred to me that Avid's intent to replace our current PT10 licenses with bundled PT10/11 licenses upon upgrade to PT11 may pose an issue for some of us. In its haste of wanting to see RTAS disappear for good, I hope that Avid takes some time to consider those PT users that may need to fall back on pre-PT11 projects because they are based on RTAS plugins that may never have identical AAX equivalents made, or automation data that is not interchangeable between the two plugin formats.

Keeping in mind the importance that Avid places on improved workflows, it would be a significant impediment to have to port existing RTAS-only projects over to PT11 than to work on them natively in RTAS-friendly PT10. This isn't an issue now with PT10/11 co-install support, but could be an issue at a later time because of Avid's policy of surrendering licenses during upgrades. Since the PT10 license will be bundled with PT11, what will happen upon upgrading to PT12? Will Pro Tools licenses indefinitely be bundled with a PT10 license for the life of the product line? If not, then I can see a problem where the PT10 license could go "extinct" after several upgrade cycles and existing Pro Tools 10 users not having a potential means to natively open/modify archived "RTAS projects" without major modification.

Again, I don't know what Avid's intent is on the matter but I would like them at least to start considering it. My preference would be to have a PT11 upgrade license that is separate and unbundled from the PT10 license. If Avid is concerned about people selling off the PT10 license, then have the existing PT10 license replaced with a PT10 license that is non-transferrable for one to two years. (Personally I couldn't imagine that anyone working professionally with Pro Tools would even consider parting with the PT10 license just because of the potential implications down the road with archived projects.) Alternatively, Avid would need to bundle a PT10 license with every Pro Tools license upgrade going forward for existing PT10 licensees, which includes every customer that recently purchased a PT10 license with a free upgrade to PT11.

In my opinion, it's best for Avid to not have to deal with PT10 going forward by unbundling the licenses now, because in effect, having to bundle PT10 indefinitely for existing PT10 customers is essentially providing support for the product. All I know is that 5 years down the road when we're at PT14 or PT15, I don't want to be in a situation where I can't work on my RTAS projects at all if need be. And I don't think that Avid would want to be in a situation where they're having to waste support resources fulfilling temporary license requests for a defunct product.
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  #2  
Old 05-01-2013, 03:47 PM
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zedhed zedhed is offline
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Default Re: [REQ] to Avid: Separate, Unbundled PT10 License for PT11 Upgrades

If a PT9 &/or 10 licence is on one iLok, and the PT 10/11 bundle is on another iLok, wouldn't that mean the iLok website wouldn't 'see' the older versions provided the iLok with those versions wasn't plugged in?

Or would the 10/11 bundle not be transferred (whether or not to a different iLok) if the old wasn't surrendered? If this is indeed the case, then you are making a very good point.
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  #3  
Old 05-01-2013, 04:06 PM
kazuomik kazuomik is offline
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Default Re: [REQ] to Avid: Separate, Unbundled PT10 License for PT11 Upgrades

> Will Pro Tools licenses indefinitely be bundled with a PT10 license for the life of the product line?

It sounds a solution, rather than separating PT10 iLok license from PT11 iLok bundle license.

PT12 or later version of iLok license should always include PT10 in addition to its previous version for a while as follows.

PT11 bundle
* PT11
* PT10

PT12 bundle
* PT12
* PT11
* PT10

PT13 bundle
* PT13
* PT12
* PT10

PT14 bundle
* PT14
* PT13
* PT10
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  #4  
Old 05-01-2013, 11:24 PM
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nigelpry nigelpry is offline
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Default Re: [REQ] to Avid: Separate, Unbundled PT10 License for PT11 Upgrades

To be honest, I think the simplest solution is to have a single licence that opens all previous versions of the software.

What benefit is there, for example, in preventing a new PT11 purchaser from downloading and using PT9. He may have an older lower spec 2nd computer that he'd like to use from time to time, and for which PT9 would be the best option performance wise.

There may be some insurmountable problem with how iLok licences are configured that would prevent this, but then the backstop should be to always, in perpetuity, include all licences back to V9 in the bundle. Versions 8 and below don't need a licence, just Digidesign hardware.

A single licence that opens all previous versions is how the Cubase licence works. Anybody buying Cubase 7 now will find that if they install any version of Cubase back to SX1, they can run it using the Cubase 7 licence.
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  #5  
Old 05-02-2013, 12:53 AM
ChazC ChazC is offline
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Default Re: [REQ] to Avid: Separate, Unbundled PT10 License for PT11 Upgrades

With PT10 being the last version to support RTAS I would think that future versions of PT will contain a PT10 license for quite some time. Can't really see having all versions past 10 being included as well.

PT11 incl. PT10
PT12 incl. PT10

etc.

Don't think it will ever be supplied as a separate license otherwise someone somewhere would try to sell it on!

Would make the most sense IMO.
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  #6  
Old 05-02-2013, 01:02 AM
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nigelpry nigelpry is offline
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Default Re: [REQ] to Avid: Separate, Unbundled PT10 License for PT11 Upgrades

If Avid has to provide separate licences for each version, because a single licence going back to V9 is not possible, then of course those licences should be bundled.

There should be no way to unbundle them, for precisely the reason you say Righty.
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  #7  
Old 05-02-2013, 06:50 AM
bakerja bakerja is offline
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Default Re: [REQ] to Avid: Separate, Unbundled PT10 License for PT11 Upgrades

If I understand correctly, you can have PT10 and PT11 installed at the same time on the same machine. The license will work for either.
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  #8  
Old 05-02-2013, 09:02 AM
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nigelpry nigelpry is offline
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Default Re: [REQ] to Avid: Separate, Unbundled PT10 License for PT11 Upgrades

bakerja ... you can have 10 and 11 installed on the same machine.

When you buy 11, you get a bundled pair of licences ... a PT11 licence and a PT10 licence, so you can run whichever one you need to at that moment in time.

You are given two licences, it is not a single licence that works for either. The two licences are stuck together in a bundled package that cannot be split.

That's so you can't separate them onto different iLoks. Because if you could, you could sell one, or run PT10 on one computer and PT11 on another, at the same time.
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Pro Tools 2020.3, Media Composer 8.9, Sibelius 8.7, Cubase Pro 10.5, Wavelab Pro 10, Logic Pro X 10.4.8, Mainstage 3.
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Old 05-02-2013, 09:52 AM
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Default Re: [REQ] to Avid: Separate, Unbundled PT10 License for PT11 Upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by nigelpry View Post
To be honest, I think the simplest solution is to have a single licence that opens all previous versions of the software.
Simplest for the user, yes. For Avid, no.

If for example we think that PT11 license would open PT10/9/8/7 that means Avid would have to release new dot release for all major versions because old PT software has no idea what the PT11 license is all about.

Naturally I'd like that as a user, but I don't see that happening.
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  #10  
Old 05-02-2013, 03:12 PM
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nigelpry nigelpry is offline
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Default Re: [REQ] to Avid: Separate, Unbundled PT10 License for PT11 Upgrades

JFreak, I'm not a programmer (although I've done some programming in the past), that's why I provided the get out clause if it is not practicable to have a single licence.

Whay I can say, with 100% confidence, is that Steinberg HAS NOT released new 'dot' releases for its old software.

My Steinberg dongle (not iLok ... it's eLicenser) shows only a Cubase 7 licence ... a single licence for which I had to surrender my previous Cubase 6 licence.

But all earlier versions of Cubase open using that licence. Those old versions of Cubase do not know about Cubase 7 or its licence.

I guess, in layman's terms, that the licence is simply written in such a way that it is capable of responding to licence info requests from old versions of the software.The licence is doing all the work. It knows which versions of the software it supports and sends the correct answer back to the software when it is asked a question.

So if the software says 'Hey I'm Cubase SX3, is there a Cubase SX3 licence on any of the eLicensers attached to this computer?' ... then the Cubase 7 licence says 'Yes, go ahead and launch, I'm a Cubase SX3 licence'.

So there is no need for a new 'dot release', the issue is dealt with by the licence pretending to be an old licence.

Hey, for all I know, the licence architecture might just mean that what I see as a Cubase 7 licence is actually a bundle of licences providing access to all previous versions. But it only appears to be one licence.

I was just pointing out that some software allows you permanent access to all versions up to the latest version that the licence is published for.
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Digi 003 Console, Focusrite OctopreLE and MOTU Traveler for extra analog-ADAT conversion, UAD Apollo Quad Silver with Thunderbolt card, Apollo x4 and pci-e Octo, Adam A77X monitors.
Pro Tools 2020.3, Media Composer 8.9, Sibelius 8.7, Cubase Pro 10.5, Wavelab Pro 10, Logic Pro X 10.4.8, Mainstage 3.
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