Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Post Production > Post - Surround - Video

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-10-2009, 11:58 PM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: old europe
Posts: 5,615
Default Dangerous touch/latch+trim

Digi, please turn this off:
Select touch/latch+trim mode. Then select "plugin" only in the automation enable window.
When you now grab a fader forgetting that "volume" isn't enabeled Pt will trim the volume of the entire track!
I find this an extremely dangerous "feature" and I want to turn it off.

Frank
__________________
PTHDn 2021.7 (OSX10.14.6), 8x8x8, MacPro 5,1 3.33Ghz 12-Core, BM DeckLink SDI, SYNC HD, all genlocked via AJA GEN10, 48GB RAM, Xilica Neutrino, Meyersound Acheron
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-11-2009, 12:30 AM
Andy Hay Andy Hay is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 193
Default Re: Dangerous touch/latch+trim

+1 I've been burned by this a few times!!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-11-2009, 01:46 AM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: old europe
Posts: 5,615
Default Re: Dangerous touch/latch+trim

Itīs a nightmare. Thanks to a fellow mixer I keep the undo-que window open all the time to check if and when I might have done this without noticing.

IMO, this "feature" (just like the other one Iīve posted) is a malfunction and should be turned off.

Whatīs the point of turning off "volume" in the automation enable window when it still changes your volume permanently and for the entire session?!

Whatīs the idea behind this?
__________________
PTHDn 2021.7 (OSX10.14.6), 8x8x8, MacPro 5,1 3.33Ghz 12-Core, BM DeckLink SDI, SYNC HD, all genlocked via AJA GEN10, 48GB RAM, Xilica Neutrino, Meyersound Acheron
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-11-2009, 02:22 AM
Ian Palmer Ian Palmer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 141
Default Re: Dangerous touch/latch+trim

I'm a bit confused. Why wold you turn off any of the tabs in the automation window? I've been mixing with them all on forever and have never come across a situation that I would need to turn them off.

Is there a shortcut that does this?
__________________
Ian Palmer
Sound Designer & Dubbing Mixer
@ianpalmersound

Website
IMDB

Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-11-2009, 02:48 AM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: old europe
Posts: 5,615
Default Re: Dangerous touch/latch+trim

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Palmer View Post
I'm a bit confused. Why wold you turn off any of the tabs in the automation window? I've been mixing with them all on forever and have never come across a situation that I would need to turn them off.

Is there a shortcut that does this?
Because when I want to use apple-alt-/ to write a static EQ to a selection I disable volume because I donīt want to kick my volume curve.

What I describe of course happens unintentionally. Of course I should turn volume back on after the EQ-thing but sometimes I forget.

So I turn on trim grab a fader thinking that Iīm writing volume but I forgot to turn volume back on.

As a result my whole track is trimmed.

In a way itīs 100% user-error, yes, but this could be prevented if PT didnīt write volume-trims without "volume" being activated in the first place.

Therefor Iīm asking what the idea behind this feature is? Maybe Iīm missing something...

Itīs more a "machine adapting to human"-idea instead of "human adapting to machine" concept Iīm asking for.

Frank.
__________________
PTHDn 2021.7 (OSX10.14.6), 8x8x8, MacPro 5,1 3.33Ghz 12-Core, BM DeckLink SDI, SYNC HD, all genlocked via AJA GEN10, 48GB RAM, Xilica Neutrino, Meyersound Acheron
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-11-2009, 04:25 AM
Vedat's Avatar
Vedat Vedat is online now
Quiet Art Ltd.
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Auckland, NZ
Posts: 943
Default Re: Dangerous touch/latch+trim

If I understand correctly what you are asking Digi is to actually disable Trim feature if the fader is not writing automation.
I reckon it would be better as an option in the preferences to turn it off and on as you like, rather than getting rid of it completely.
__________________
Vedat

WaveRider + Defaulter (now with LKFS)
QuietArt.co.nz

Catchin' SYNC app

SALE ON NOW. UP TO 60%
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-11-2009, 05:00 AM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: old europe
Posts: 5,615
Default Re: Dangerous touch/latch+trim

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mundoz View Post
If I understand correctly what you are asking Digi is to actually disable Trim feature if the fader is not writing automation.
I reckon it would be better as an option in the preferences to turn it off and on as you like, rather than getting rid of it completely.
No. Iīd like PT to not write ANY volumes (incl. volume trims) when I disable "volume" in the automation enable window.
Right now it changes the volume of the entire track even when "volume" is disabeled, as described above.

To me that seems not logical, and so far I havenīt understood the idea behind the current behavior. But Iīll be more than happy to learn what the benefit of this is, if there is one.

frank.
__________________
PTHDn 2021.7 (OSX10.14.6), 8x8x8, MacPro 5,1 3.33Ghz 12-Core, BM DeckLink SDI, SYNC HD, all genlocked via AJA GEN10, 48GB RAM, Xilica Neutrino, Meyersound Acheron
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-11-2009, 09:52 AM
colinweeks colinweeks is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 151
Default Re: Dangerous touch/latch+trim

frank:

i think it works that way because whenever you dont have automation on a track, it is essentially in manual mode and any settings become the default setting on the track when automation is turned on... if you have trim automation on a track already, protools will NOT write down the entire track as you say, it only happens if the trim automation playlist is empty... same thing happens with the normal volume automation if there isn't any automation written first.... hope that makes sense.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-11-2009, 01:28 PM
Postman Postman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: where land meets sky
Posts: 2,375
Default Re: Dangerous touch/latch+trim

Frank,

Behavior was changed in PT8, much improved but not perfect. As you know, in PT7, trim preview values tended to be coalesced when the automation was re-eabled. In PT8 this was changed. Now, you can still audition the trimmed moves (whether by accident or on purpose) when automation is disabled (but trim mode is on), and coalescing does not happen automatically. This means you can throw away the trim value by toggling the trim automation mode off and on, which also resets the trim delta to zero and no harm is done. If you do not toggle the trim mode the trim delta remains, giving you the option to coalesce it if you want it. This is better than having to use undo, at least.

There is still big danger because if you have bumped a trim fader and do not realize it, the fader stays at the bumped value and playback volume continues to be sound "trimmed". Hopefully you will notice it before too long because the next time the automation is coalesced, for any reason, the unintentional bumped value is included. So, it is harder to mess up hours of work but not impossible.

+1 for removing the feature. I am sure it was dreamed up for mixing a song, but it is anti-post. It is still too easy to bump a fader without realizing it. None-zero trim faders can be visually seen but smaller amounts can easily be missed, especially if you are not looking for them, and with 100+ tracks, it is way, way, way too easy to miss a huge bump, especially if that track is not playing at the time (as is so very common in post). You can totally mess up an enormous amount of work with one slip.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-11-2009, 10:45 PM
cjguitar cjguitar is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Sunland, CA
Posts: 561
Default Re: Dangerous touch/latch+trim

+1 from me. It's a real PITA!!! Happens to me often (at least once a day).
__________________
Chris M. Jacobson, CAS
Re-recording Mixer, Sound Designer
IMDB
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
touch switches to latch automatically Nick Camaron Post - Surround - Video 25 01-02-2015 06:50 AM
Touch/Latch mode 003 bassmonsta 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 0 04-19-2012 09:23 AM
touch vs latch, why and when? DHG MUSIC ICON & C|24 11 06-08-2011 07:49 PM
Touch/Latch - Sends gonzolagonda Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 2 07-12-2007 05:53 PM
Latch or touch and trim beech ICON & C|24 3 10-10-2002 11:15 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:23 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com