Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Mixing > Artist Series

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 09-20-2012, 07:36 PM
bacchus40 bacchus40 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: CANADA, west coast
Posts: 481
Default Re: is there "delay compensation" for writing automation via faders??

geezus.. you guys serious!??

and i was all excited about purchasing an AVID ARTIST MIX... mostly for that purpose!!

now you're telling me the damn thing doesnt work!!?? wtf!!.. /passes out
__________________
kickin' at the darkness 'till it bleeds daYlighT


Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-20-2012, 08:29 PM
Craig F Craig F is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12,591
Default Re: is there "delay compensation" for writing automation via faders??

it's not the controller, it's Pro Tools in general
__________________
...

"Fly High Freeee click psst tic tic tic click Bird Yeah!" - dave911

PT11 System Requirements link http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/C...m-Requirements


Thank you,

Craig
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-20-2012, 08:46 PM
WildHoney WildHoney is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 979
Default Re: is there "delay compensation" for writing automation via faders??

Seems to be. I gotta wonder about the ethics of selling hardware (C24/ICON), that is billed as offering a tactile mixing experience, that is only really useful with one piece of software, and not mentioning anywhere in the literature that that software cannot deliver the experience any user would expect it to deliver.
At the very least there oughta be a big asterisk in the automation section of the manual that says:

ATTN: ETHERNET CONTROLLER USERS -- DO NOT ATTEMPT TO USE YOUR CONTROLLER AS A MEANS OF ENTERING AUTOMATION DATA IN REAL TIME, AS WITH A TRADITIONAL MIXING EXPERIENCE. ANY AUTOMATION WRITTEN WILL BE OFFSET BY THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF SYSTEM DELAY THAT PLUGINS AND ROUTING ARE CAUSING, CAUSING AUTOMATION DATA TO PLAY BACK LATE. WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON A WAY TO IMPLEMENT A FIX, BUT IN SIX YEARS WE HAVEN'T EVEN POSTED A REPLY TO ANY OF THE NUMEROUS REPORTS OF THIS ON THE DUC, NO LESS ADDRESSED THE ISSUE IN A SOFTWARE UPDATE.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-20-2012, 09:35 PM
bacchus40 bacchus40 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: CANADA, west coast
Posts: 481
Default Re: is there "delay compensation" for writing automation via faders??

bwaahhaha... i'd love to see that in print!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig F View Post
it's not the controller, it's Pro Tools in general
doesnt really matter does it!??? considering both are owned by the same company!??
__________________
kickin' at the darkness 'till it bleeds daYlighT


Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-21-2012, 07:15 PM
chris-euphonix chris-euphonix is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Scotland
Posts: 94
Default Re: is there "delay compensation" for writing automation via faders??

Works fine for me.

(I'm using Logic and sometimes Cubase)
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-21-2012, 08:39 PM
bacchus40 bacchus40 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: CANADA, west coast
Posts: 481
Default Re: is there "delay compensation" for writing automation via faders??

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris-euphonix View Post
Works fine for me.

(I'm using Logic and sometimes Cubase)
yeah i did read up on it and seems to work fine with those...

how does that make sense!? hahahha... i'm actually about to
pick up 8 faders anyway... i just really hope Avid is gracious enough
to come up with a cure for this... we cant be outdone by the other guys can we!!??
__________________
kickin' at the darkness 'till it bleeds daYlighT


Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-28-2012, 05:52 AM
WildHoney WildHoney is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 979
Default Re: is there "delay compensation" for writing automation via faders??

Got to perform a more thorough test today. I created a new session with one audio track and one aux track. Audio track routed to aux track. Aux track routed to main hardware outputs on the a 192 interface.

On each I put an L3MultiMaximizer and 8 L2's. This puts the total system delay very close to, but still under the limit of ADC.

Next, deactivated all plugins. Set automation on the audio track to touch. Press play, move fader, press stop, automation prints in time.

Then, activate all the plugins only on the audio track. Press play, move fader, press stop, automation prints in time.

Finally, deactivate audio channel plugins and activate aux channel plugins. Press play, move fader. Automation, when recording, appears in time. Press stop and automation data jumps late by (it seems) the total amount of system delay (CMD-2 show that value in the session setup window -- in this case, 4091 samples).

I've posted the test session used here if anyone can verify the results: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/46797835/FileChute/test.zip

So what this is telling me is that if you use plug-ins on an aux track in your workflow, you cannot write automation, via controller (C24 in this case), in time. I'm not sure I know any ProTools users (in music production/mixing) who don't use aux tracks either to sub mix parts within a mix, or at the very least, as a mix bus on which to apply compression, limiting, etc. So, assuming my test is verifiable, is this just the way it is??? And will all DAW's do this when use aux tracks? FWIW, my assistant did the same test on his LE system and reported the same results.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-28-2012, 10:23 PM
Herbieoz Herbieoz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Earth
Posts: 78
Default Re: is there "delay compensation" for writing automation via faders??

Can you post this (if not done already) in the protools part of the forum.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-29-2012, 05:48 AM
WildHoney WildHoney is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 979
Default Re: is there "delay compensation" for writing automation via faders??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbieoz View Post
Can you post this (if not done already) in the protools part of the forum.
Done. Posted in HD/TDM for Mac forum: http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=327989&page=3
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-01-2012, 05:45 AM
Trazan Trazan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 101
Default Re: is there "delay compensation" for writing automation via faders??

Quote:
Originally Posted by WildHoney View Post
So, help me understand here, people. Does NOBODY use their controllers to writer fader automation? Is that why this doesn't concern anyone? Nor concern Avid? I'm just not understanding why this behavior isn't more well-known. It'd seem to me that if you're spending $10K+ for a C24, ICON, etc, you'd probably, at least at some point, if not all the time, draw in a fader ride via the controller and find that it just doesn't work properly.
I don't think it's related to the controller. I had the same problem when I wrote real time automation with the mouse. Even when drawing automation, for that matter. Applying a large buffer in PT put the automation off.

I haven't worked with critical automation timing lately, so I'm not sure if this is the case in PT 10.

EDIT: didn't notice there was a second page in this thread...Could be two different issues here, it seems. I remember automation that was perfectly in time on the timeline, acted late - according to buffer size. That automation is written "off" is another (or additional) problem...
I was on an LE system without delay compensation at the time, so the first issue might not apply on systems with delay compensation (?).
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Delay Compensation in "Playback Engine"? RokVox Pro Tools 11 8 09-11-2013 11:38 AM
Import session data... please break out "plug in settings" and "plug in automation" yeloocevad Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 19 10-05-2011 01:04 PM
Problem with "delay compensation" cozy_man Pro Tools HDX & HD Native Systems (Mac) 0 09-26-2011 01:52 AM
HUI Faders seem "sticky" when writing automation marcuspardomix Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 4 08-10-2005 06:20 PM
MLCD Locks at writing "Lead Out" El Guapo Digidesign Hardware & Software 2 09-21-2001 04:14 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:18 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com