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  #1  
Old 10-08-2023, 07:54 PM
OliverH OliverH is offline
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Default Sketch first impressions - some bottlenecks

Dove into Sketch for the first time today, on a desktop within Pro Tools (not iPad app). Seeing a couple bottlenecks on just pure functionality that are not so fun and curious if anyone else experiencing these and equally frustrated with them.

As a preface, I am very aware that this app is very new and has a long way to go in terms of features and usability enhancements, etc. What I'm talking about here is bare bones stuff.

Right off the bat - when I record into a clip, I see the red stripe writing across the track lane indicating I'm recording and see a waveform being written, however, as soon as I stop recording/playback, all that can be seen are the clip loop boundaries, no waveform inside them at all. No amount of zooming helps... just no waveform to be found anywhere. Makes it pretty darn hard to edit anything. The only way I can get the waveform to show up is to close Sketch and reopen the sketch/session and then when you click on a clip to edit it, the waveform is there. I have to assume this is a bug? Anyone else seeing this? I am on macOS 12.7 and to be fair PT 2023.9 is technically only supported up to macOS 12.6.9 if you're using Monterey. But in order to be up to date with PT 2023.9 requirements, Apple forced me to skip up to 12.7, as we all know Apple does with OS updates - you can only update to the latest version they offer. Since this was mostly only a security fix update from Apple, figured it wasn't a big deal with respect to PT. Not sure if it's affecting this bug though. Either way, really seems odd to not have access to a waveform right after you record it.

Next - latency seems worse than I'm used to using Pro Tools on its own. That is, I record all the time with a buffer of 256 samples and yes I can sense a TINY bit of latency if I'm hyper tuned in to it, but generally that buffer setting on my setup is the best comprise for most tasks - recording, mixing, etc - with a minimum of buffer size changes. Never bothered me enough to change it. However, with Sketch running in parallel to PT, I setup an AUX track in PT as an input source for a guitar, ran that through an amp sim with no latency associated with it, and bussed out of that AUX track into Sketch via its main stereo input. The latency is A LOT more noticeable when routing signal from Pro Tools into sketch via a bus, vs just recording or bussing an input in PT straight to an audio track, for instance. Like bordering on slapback delay territory latency. So I changed PT's buffer size to 32 samples just to see and while that did improve the overall latency, it still was quite noticeable - and with the expected added cost of the whole system being pretty taxed to run at that buffer size, just to monitor one track going into Sketch. Bottom line, running at 32 samples buffer while using Sketch STILL sounds highly latent and that worries me. My setup performs fine, to the point that I rarely need to use a 32 buffer size... and with nowhere to go, 32 doesn't quite cut it in my opinion. Anyone else experiencing this too? Wondering if it has to do with the software architecture of leaving the Pro Tools HD software ecosystem and going into what is effectively a separate app (albeit an Avid one).

There are all sorts of other head scratchers in Sketch that I could go on about, but these two things seem like such big showstoppers, I'll just start there.

Am I alone on these?
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  #2  
Old 10-08-2023, 09:21 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Sketch first impressions - some bottlenecks

Quote:
Originally Posted by OliverH View Post
Dove into Sketch for the first time today, on a desktop within Pro Tools (not iPad app). Seeing a couple bottlenecks on just pure functionality that are not so fun and curious if anyone else experiencing these and equally frustrated with them.

As a preface, I am very aware that this app is very new and has a long way to go in terms of features and usability enhancements, etc. What I'm talking about here is bare bones stuff.

Right off the bat - when I record into a clip, I see the red stripe writing across the track lane indicating I'm recording and see a waveform being written, however, as soon as I stop recording/playback, all that can be seen are the clip loop boundaries, no waveform inside them at all. No amount of zooming helps... just no waveform to be found anywhere. Makes it pretty darn hard to edit anything. The only way I can get the waveform to show up is to close Sketch and reopen the sketch/session and then when you click on a clip to edit it, the waveform is there. I have to assume this is a bug? Anyone else seeing this? I am on macOS 12.7 and to be fair PT 2023.9 is technically only supported up to macOS 12.6.9 if you're using Monterey. But in order to be up to date with PT 2023.9 requirements, Apple forced me to skip up to 12.7, as we all know Apple does with OS updates - you can only update to the latest version they offer. Since this was mostly only a security fix update from Apple, figured it wasn't a big deal with respect to PT. Not sure if it's affecting this bug though. Either way, really seems odd to not have access to a waveform right after you record it.
You likely are not recording anything as you have not selected an input. Very top left corner of the Sketch window under "audio". This is pretty non-obvious and why would it is allowed to look like it's recording when it has no input specified is... uh oh boy that was not well thought out. A pretty bad out of box experience. And the input appears to have to be stereo, but that's not actually clear anywhere so mono input sources just don't show up... so users will just think it's broken. And sketch audio input is not say usable by creative folks on most laptops/computers using the build in mono-microphone or many headsets with mono microphones. Uh....

I hope Sketch has a very high update cadence... Avid is going to need to show that for anybody to pay attention to this. It's OK as far as I'm concerned to launch something "early" and as rough as Sketch is (some wag called it a "Fisher Price" app, harsh but currently true) as long as the company is all over feedback and getting updates out.

And that audio editing once you do stumble into how to record an audio clip... its funky and trying to repurpose an iOS touch interface onto a computer, which I think is just a fundamentally bad idea, I mean you can stumble your way though this but it's fugly and so frustrating to use when you have a mouse and could be editing like with Pro Tools audio.

Last edited by Darryl Ramm; 10-08-2023 at 09:37 PM.
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  #3  
Old 10-08-2023, 10:28 PM
OliverH OliverH is offline
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Default Re: Sketch first impressions - some bottlenecks

Thanks Darryl. I figured out the inputs for Sketch. Got that far. I can record audio and play it back. Just can’t see the waveform without restarting the app after every record pass.
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  #4  
Old 10-08-2023, 11:25 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Sketch first impressions - some bottlenecks

Oops I misunderstood you had got past inputs, that is what hung me up on my MacBook Pro since it has a mono mic and does not show as an input option. This is the waveform rendering behavior I see for any stereo input... https://youtu.be/tZSvCh9t7CI I never lose the waveform.
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Old 10-09-2023, 12:54 PM
OliverH OliverH is offline
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Default Re: Sketch first impressions - some bottlenecks

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Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
Oops I misunderstood you had got past inputs, that is what hung me up on my MacBook Pro since it has a mono mic and does not show as an input option. This is the waveform rendering behavior I see for any stereo input... https://youtu.be/tZSvCh9t7CI I never lose the waveform.
Definitely not seeing this behavior on my end. Your video is exactly what I expected to happen, but doesn't. That purple waveform you get upon hitting stop does not appear for me. It's just a blank loop/clip visually, even though I can playback the audio that was just recorded, and technically edit it, albeit doing so literally blindly and purely by ear. I have old tape decks if I want to work like that!
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Last edited by OliverH; 10-09-2023 at 05:20 PM.
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  #6  
Old 10-19-2023, 07:12 AM
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marianna marianna is offline
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Default Re: Sketch first impressions - some bottlenecks

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Originally Posted by OliverH View Post
Definitely not seeing this behavior on my end. Your video is exactly what I expected to happen, but doesn't. That purple waveform you get upon hitting stop does not appear for me. It's just a blank loop/clip visually, even though I can playback the audio that was just recorded, and technically edit it, albeit doing so literally blindly and purely by ear. I have old tape decks if I want to work like that!
OliverH

I created a case for this ( 04696204 ) and will have the team look at this and assist you via email.
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  #7  
Old 02-15-2024, 06:39 AM
Ru_C Ru_C is offline
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Default Re: Sketch first impressions - some bottlenecks

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Originally Posted by OliverH View Post

Next - latency seems worse than I'm used to using Pro Tools on its own. That is, I record all the time with a buffer of 256 samples and yes I can sense a TINY bit of latency if I'm hyper tuned in to it, but generally that buffer setting on my setup is the best comprise for most tasks - recording, mixing, etc - with a minimum of buffer size changes. Never bothered me enough to change it. However, with Sketch running in parallel to PT, I setup an AUX track in PT as an input source for a guitar, ran that through an amp sim with no latency associated with it, and bussed out of that AUX track into Sketch via its main stereo input. The latency is A LOT more noticeable when routing signal from Pro Tools into sketch via a bus, vs just recording or bussing an input in PT straight to an audio track, for instance. Like bordering on slapback delay territory latency. So I changed PT's buffer size to 32 samples just to see and while that did improve the overall latency, it still was quite noticeable - and with the expected added cost of the whole system being pretty taxed to run at that buffer size, just to monitor one track going into Sketch. Bottom line, running at 32 samples buffer while using Sketch STILL sounds highly latent and that worries me. My setup performs fine, to the point that I rarely need to use a 32 buffer size... and with nowhere to go, 32 doesn't quite cut it in my opinion. Anyone else experiencing this too? Wondering if it has to do with the software architecture of leaving the Pro Tools HD software ecosystem and going into what is effectively a separate app (albeit an Avid one).

There are all sorts of other head scratchers in Sketch that I could go on about, but these two things seem like such big showstoppers, I'll just start there.

Am I alone on these?
Yep, just testing it out properly.

On an HD Omini/native system. Pro Tools is at 64sample Buffer, & recording into Sketch is more like 1024sample buffer. Unusable latency, & also Stereo recording only <<Facepalm>>

I don't think this feature can even have been tested, or else it wouldn't have been released in this state.
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  #8  
Old 02-29-2024, 10:13 AM
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tope d tope d is offline
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Default Re: Sketch first impressions - some bottlenecks

Hi Oliver!

Support team already sent an Email. Please check and respond.

Thank you!
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