Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Live Sound > VENUE Live Sound Systems

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-18-2011, 06:44 PM
Howardk Howardk is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Canada, just past the line!
Posts: 1,990
Default Recording and broadcasting while changing Show Files.

I will be recording a fairly long live show with 2 consoles, as well as doing the live broadcast mix at the same time. A- Console for the bands is a Profile with the split racks, and B-Console for the MCs and special speaking guests, ambiance, and general summing will be a Yamaha M7CL. . . I need to record everything on separate tracks for post/archival. We are to run 48 Tracks of band from the Venue/Profile into an HD3 rig and recording another 8+ tracks of MC wireless etc. . . from M7CL Optical Outputs to a 192 i/o also tied to the HD3 rig. I have never tried using a 192 i/o and Profile/Venue tied to a single HD rig at the same time. Does ProTools behave with that interface configuration?

We are going to use one external word clock to drive all the digital gear, and we are going to make sure the Profile presets we load are using the same hardware configuration so the Venue does not do a restart, which I expect would hang ProTools. Assuming a show preset is the same configuration, can we safely load a Venue Show will ProTools is recording or does it have the potential to mess things up?

I have not used snapshots before, or Venue Link for markers into ProTools, and I have read a few posts on the internet with problems on both of these. . . need to research more and i am not sure that venture is worthwhile at this time. Comments/thoughts/Experiences?

In addition to specifics above, any general thoughts or comments would be appreciated. Thanks. . .
__________________
...for system configuration info see my profile
(Click on member name)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-19-2011, 03:33 AM
Kenmillerjr's Avatar
Kenmillerjr Kenmillerjr is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Warner Robins, GA
Posts: 597
Default Re: 192i/o with Profile/Venue at the same time

As long as everything is configured properly, the mentioned configuration should be just fine.

I do not know "for sure" if changing show files during recording would drop recording. But, it sounds a little risky. I would steer away from that being an option if you desire a solid recording.

Snapshots and VENUE Link are two things which I swear by. Venue Link is just "control data" basically between ProTools and VENUE. I've never had a problem with it. Snapshot are very useful, and quite frankly this is what I would recommend to you. There is a basic idea in the users manual but let me start off by saying two things that easily get people. When you hit that "Store" button, VENUE stores every recall able aspect of the console then you choose what parimeters to recall. To aid in problems, only recall what you want to be changed from snapshots. I have seen a lot of stuff get hosed because every aspect was selected and so were all channels.
__________________
Ken Miller, Jr.
Audio Engineer
Southside Baptist Church | Warner Robins, GA

| VENUE Profile 96X64 with MADI Option | ProTools 7.4.2 HD3 Accel PCI | ProTools 10 Native | MacBook Pro 17" OS 10.7.1 2.3GHz Intel Core i7 8GB Ram | Mbox 2 Pro | Mbox 3 Pro | Motu 896mk3 Hybrid |
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-19-2011, 08:39 AM
Howardk Howardk is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Canada, just past the line!
Posts: 1,990
Default Re: 192i/o with Profile/Venue at the same time

Hi Ken

Thing is I am switching between completely different bands, with different input patches, labeling, different plugins, different buss routing, different everything. . . . Basically all that will be the same is the matrix settings/final output routing. . . There are also guest engineers for some segments and we will be using virtual sound-check on rehearsal day to tweak the settings for show day, and I need to be able to recall those as their specific starting points on show day, while the ProTools HD3 rig is recording inputs from the ProFile/Venue as well as the M7CL. Is the snapshot function designed that that kind of on-the-fly change, which is basically change-everything?

Further thoughts?
__________________
...for system configuration info see my profile
(Click on member name)
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-19-2011, 11:16 AM
Nicolas Lowman Nicolas Lowman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 103
Smile Re: 192i/o with Profile/Venue at the same time

Hi Howard,

If you are going to have guest engineers come in, I am guessing that they are gonna bring in their own show files. If this is the case, the snapshot solution will not be ideal for you. You will want a separate show file for each band. When you load a new show file in venue the desk will reboot and rebuild the plugin rack. The console will go offline to Protools during this time. I would recommend splitting the two systems up and treat it as two separate recordings. If you have an ADAT interface in the M7 send that to a separate recorder(either an LE machine or other DAW). If you are renting all the equipment perhaps an easy option would be an SC48 instead of an M7 to handle MC stuff as it has the firewire built in for 18ch of tracking and allow venue link to this system as well, just a thought.
If you are planning on using venue link, I would recommend that you configure this setup ahead of time. It works great and will save you lots of time in labeling tracks. It isn't difficult to configure, but it can take some time as you have to have the correct software on the desk and in Protools as well as configuring the network between the two machines.
If any of this needs to be synced to timecode, you will want to allow for that as well.

Nicolas

PS don't forget the ups.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-19-2011, 12:03 PM
Kenmillerjr's Avatar
Kenmillerjr Kenmillerjr is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Warner Robins, GA
Posts: 597
Default Re: 192i/o with Profile/Venue at the same time

Once show starts, the Profile will essentially go offline when you switch show files, which (I have not tested this) will possibly send ProTools offline. Which if you are ok with that, then great. But as far as the HD3 goes and the two desks, you can do that.
__________________
Ken Miller, Jr.
Audio Engineer
Southside Baptist Church | Warner Robins, GA

| VENUE Profile 96X64 with MADI Option | ProTools 7.4.2 HD3 Accel PCI | ProTools 10 Native | MacBook Pro 17" OS 10.7.1 2.3GHz Intel Core i7 8GB Ram | Mbox 2 Pro | Mbox 3 Pro | Motu 896mk3 Hybrid |
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-19-2011, 07:33 PM
Howardk Howardk is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Canada, just past the line!
Posts: 1,990
Default Re: 192i/o with Profile/Venue at the same time

Hi Nicolas

Yea, UPS's will be a-plenty.

I should have the guest engineers show files in advance. . . and we do have a rehearsal day so I will have time for testing etc. . . regardless, I feel it is too risky to depend on the HD rig for recording the whole show so we are going to use an HD24 and light pipe everything else out of the M7CL (MC, Talking Heads etc. . .), and the band mixes will be on the profile into the HD rig for post, and the 2 mix will be send AES to the M7CL and then to broadcast.

I still would love the overview of what snapshots can and can't do. I just don't get to use these desk in the shop and although it is my live console when touring there is some much on the go with fly-dates, merch etc. . . I just don't have enough time on it to look at things I don't need for live FOH shows. . . is there a video around on Snapshot functionality?
__________________
...for system configuration info see my profile
(Click on member name)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-19-2011, 10:26 PM
Nicolas Lowman Nicolas Lowman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 103
Default Re: 192i/o with Profile/Venue at the same time

http://www.avid.com/us/resources/webinars

There is a webinar in the bottom right on snapshots.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-20-2011, 05:12 AM
Kenmillerjr's Avatar
Kenmillerjr Kenmillerjr is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Warner Robins, GA
Posts: 597
Default Re: 192i/o with Profile/Venue at the same time

When I was on Yamaha desks, I never used "scenes" live. I thought it was too risky. But when I got into VENUE, I practically fell in love with it. Haha

I do a lot of tours, and the snapshot functionality makes things a lot easier and less troublesome. You can have to console do complex changes, without me having to depend on myself to remember. Haha

The webinar is a good one. I'd also recommend reading the VENUE documentation. That goes into a good overview of all options.
__________________
Ken Miller, Jr.
Audio Engineer
Southside Baptist Church | Warner Robins, GA

| VENUE Profile 96X64 with MADI Option | ProTools 7.4.2 HD3 Accel PCI | ProTools 10 Native | MacBook Pro 17" OS 10.7.1 2.3GHz Intel Core i7 8GB Ram | Mbox 2 Pro | Mbox 3 Pro | Motu 896mk3 Hybrid |
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-20-2011, 10:22 AM
Howardk Howardk is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Canada, just past the line!
Posts: 1,990
Default Re: 192i/o with Profile/Venue at the same time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicolas Lowman View Post
http://www.avid.com/us/resources/webinars

There is a webinar in the bottom right on snapshots.
I watched the Webinar. . . it was a little difficult to glean the details I am looking for. The main point of interest is around 00:58:27 on the related topic of "How do you fit snapshots from other bands into a festival show file?" and Robert says you can not export or import snap-shots across sessions, and talks about different console architectures being the issue (which is exactly what I expected). However, that webinar was in 2008 and by now there must be a way to move snapshots across for consoles of the same architecture, otherwise using a Profile for a live show requiring 100% up time is not really doable, and it needs to be IMO. There has to be a trick do this with Consoles or the same configuration, . . . mind you if you can quickly load a show file, with no disruption of recording, and have some channels showfile load safe (Video sound, Tunes, MC, and output path to broadcast) that would work as well.

Still thinking. . .
__________________
...for system configuration info see my profile
(Click on member name)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-20-2011, 01:43 PM
MartyBee MartyBee is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chicagoland Area
Posts: 33
Default Re: 192i/o with Profile/Venue at the same time

Hi Howard Hope all is well,,

If you can get all the other show files in advance you can condense all the bands into one showfile and use a shapshot for each band.. But you would need to save alot of inputs and plug ins to a folder to introduce into your masterfile.. Also all the other bands plug ins and routing would need to be added to your master show file.. Then add each groups plug ins to their shapshots .. The fact that you have a rehearse day gives you a fighting chance..

cheers mb
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WTB: Venue Profile Stagerack 48/8 pmueller Buy & Sell 0 07-05-2013 11:27 AM
Venue Profile System prapol VENUE Live Sound Systems 1 11-21-2011 07:07 AM
Venue D Show vs Venue Profile [email protected] VENUE Live Sound Systems 14 07-06-2011 02:31 PM
usb not working on Venue profile Abassi VENUE Live Sound Systems 3 05-26-2011 08:52 AM
VENUE Profile, max. channels - 96 or 128? kwz VENUE Live Sound Systems 3 12-16-2010 11:15 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:33 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com