A marketing plan towards the EDM demographic?

[DBK]

Being more apart of the 'edm community' than I am recording right now, I feel like I am the only person using Pro Tools. Is it just me or should Avid be trying to grab a piece of that (continuously rising) demographic? Dont get me wrong, I know Pro Tools is fully capable of doing everything in the box that logic, reason, etc can do. Thats why I'm staying with it. My point is that NOBODY knows that it is up to par with those other daws now. I cant even tell you how many times people ask me "how the hell do you make electronic music in pro tools?".. Its the same as any other daw nowadays, its just no one knows that it is because it isn't advertised at all. People on electronic forums are still talking like Pro Tools hasn't passed version 7 yet, its like it's everyone on the internet versus me whenever a DAW debate comes up on electronic forums haha. The only thing Pro Tools is missing in that demographic is the advertisement. Im a member on lots of paid video sites for electronic music where they dont even list Pro Tools as a use able daw, its like it doesn't exist. I cant believe it. Newcomers to the industry who are getting into this because they want to make electronic music are extremely easy to manipulate. They will use what they see everyone else is using, thats the only reason FL studio is so damn popular. And they'll also believe everything they hear, which right now, is that Pro Tools cant make electronic music. That fact will never change unless AVID puts a marketing plan in place aimed directly at that demographic.

Putting the free version of pro tools out is a step in the right direction. But I dont think it will be enough unless they have a reason to use it.

People who are recording live instruments already know Pro Tools is the DAW to use, something needs to be done to make electronic musicians more aware now. That industry isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

[mesaone]

Originally Posted by DBK

Is it just me or should Avid be trying to grab a piece of that (continuously rising) demographic?

What do you think they should do in order to get a piece?

[DBK]

Originally Posted by mesaone

What do you think they should do in order to get a piece?

Im not sure if its more about where they advertise or what they advertise. Because I know they did have a little run when pro tools 11 came out about the 'new standard for music production'. But I think everyones so used to hearing 'industry standard' from Pro Tools advertisements that it doesn't have its affect anymore. And they keep associating it with the recording standard.

It wouldn't BE a re branding, but the advertising approach would almost have to seem like a rebranding. It would have to send a message along the lines of "what we weren't capable of before, we are now." Because everyone assumes Pro Tools cant do it right now, so unless they see something has drastically changed to accommodate that side of the market people won't even pay attention to it, like they didn't when Pro Tools 11 came out. Even though the changes have already happened, no one seems to know about them(that doesn't intentionally follow Pro Tools news)

I think the best and cheapest way would be to get some "EDM in Pro Tools" videos up on youtube. ACTUAL quality videos, not the cheap stuff about side chaining, etc.. thats on youtbue right now, actual advanced stuff. And the videos would CLEARLY need to be marketed towards EDM users. Also wouldn't hurt to include somewhere in the title that the information can be translated to any daw. Thats the main source beginners look to and to learn from. New users in that demographic are EXTREMELY picky about watching tutorials done in their DAW, no exceptions. And when there aren't any videos on youtube of that kind of music done in Pro Tools, it pushes everyone away. People can learn every daw there is on Youtube except pro tools. Not to say Youtube is where people should be learning there daw, but the fact is its where beginners are learning their DAW. And if there is no source of free learning specifically for that kind of music, no one will use pro tools for it.

Even on paid sites there is nothing like that done in pro tools. Ive gotten used to watching all the production sessions and stuff I watch done in logic or in ableton and it teaches me how to use pro tools better because I actually have to think about how to do it in Pro Tools. But the thing is no one else will do that, I dont get why people are so adamant on only watching stuff done in their daw, but thats how it is. A lack of Pro Tools tutorials on youtube plays a HUGE factor in the lack of users coming in from the EDM side I think.

Then there is the unavoidable reason, the ilok. But that is how it is and I dont think it should change anyway. The free version of pro tools was a good compromise for that to at least get people to try the demo.

But until there is some sort of free source online where you can learn EDM in pro tools, beginners won't start using it. Do a quick search of EDM done in pro tools, there is nothing. Then do the same search for any other daw. I know you guys dont really think about that kind of stuff but thats just how it is now, everyone looks to youtube, and if you aren't talked about on youtube or on forums. Beginners arent going to buy it. Official advertising doesn't mean as much as word of mouth through the community on the forums. Im being completely literal when I say I have NEVER ran into one other person on an electronic music forum that uses pro tools, and I'm pretty active on most of em.

[Bill Denton]

Conventional wisdom is that there are far better DAWs than Pro Tools for doing EDM. Have you tried other DAWs to see if you're missing out on workflow, features, or whatever? You could conceivably cut down a tree with a pocketknife, but you'd probably have an easier go of it with a chainsaw.

Also, the features that would make Pro Tools attractive to the EDM folks are not features that would be of a great deal of interest to Avid's high-end customers, and right now, it appears Avid is returning their focus to the larger post houses that have always been their key customers.

And other DAWs are cheaper than Pro Tools and have a much less difficult learning curve...both of which are important to the "bedroom producers" that comprise a lot of the EDM creators.

While I don't "do" EDM, I am slowly moving to another DAW that offers more focus on MIDI, which will be a large part of what I'm hoping/planning to do going forward...

[DBK]

Originally Posted by Bill Denton

Conventional wisdom is that there are far better DAWs than Pro Tools for doing EDM. Have you tried other DAWs to see if you're missing out on workflow, features, or whatever? You could conceivably cut down a tree with a pocketknife, but you'd probably have an easier go of it with a chainsaw.

Also, the features that would make Pro Tools attractive to the EDM folks are not features that would be of a great deal of interest to Avid's high-end customers, and right now, it appears Avid is returning their focus to the larger post houses that have always been their key customers.

To answer the first paragraph, thats what I hear but I am really not seeing it. I've watched 50+ hours of production done in logic and probably the same or more in Ableton and I still havent seen one thing done in either of them that I cant do in Pro Tools(fast enough for it to not make a difference). Trust me I've been looking and looking for reasons Pro Tools may be slowing me down but I really havent seen one thing yet that id rather have logic or ableton for.

Id be really interested in hearing from an active user of both what actually makes Logic 'better' than pro tools for EDM. Because from what Ive seen I honestly cant figure it out. Disregard what the daw comes with as far as plugins, obviously logic is packed and pro tools is empty when it comes to that but thats not my concern since I am fine for plugins.

And to the last paragraph, that was one thing i was kind of assuming but didn't have anything to back it. I just figured avid doesn't care about bedroom producers, which I dont think is smart at all since the future is looking more and more 'in the box'. I know right now lots of stuff still ends up going through Pro Tools at the end, but I dont know how thats gonna look in 5-10 years as more and more people keep getting logic.

[upscaps]

Pro Tools has never been a production DAW. It's a tracking/mixing/Post daw. There are so many other daws at cheaper prices suited for midi stuff. In all my years I have never put myself thru the pain of using midi in PT. It just doesn't stand up to what u can do in Logic, Live, etc.

[DBK]

Originally Posted by upscaps

It just doesn't stand up to what u can do in Logic, Live, etc.

WHY THOUGH?!

I keep hearing this over and over and over but I still have yet to actually see or hear anything specific, just that its 'not as good'.

Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying its incorrect or trying to contradict you. Im saying that I WANT TO KNOW WHY haha. Im sick of hearing that pro tools cant do what logic and ableton can without any reasons why or examples of what you're talking about that pro tools cant do.

Your post is what I see over and over again on electronic forums, its the mindset people have that made me create this thread. Im sick of just reading that Pro Tools is inferior for production without any info to back it up, I actually want to know why so I can make an informed decision on what I use.

You'd think with all this talk about logic and ableton being better, someone would be able to give me one enticing reason to go to one of them..and trust me, i want those reasons, I want to know more about this. I want to know why pro tools is apparently slowing me down. Its just no one can give me one reason even. Im not just going to leave Pro Tools because I hear that logic is better, I actually want to know why logic is better. Ive literally never gotten one solid answer from anyone. Which is what led me to believe that its all outdated information people keep believing.

If I had never used ableton or seen people work in logic I wouldn't be asking these questions, but the thing is, i have. I watch logic sessions everyday specifically looking for them to do something that you cant in pro tools..havent seen anything.. Im killing myself here looking for answers on why pro tools isn't up to par with other daws for production. Because to me it seems like it is. I really want to try logic just to really see what everyones talking about but without one reason to actually try it I'm not going to waste however many months it would take me to get familiar with it just to confirm I liked working in pro tools better.

Can somebody please tell me why Logic is better than Pro Tools for production? Im not implying that it isn't, i genuinely want to know.

[Philthy]

ProTools MIDI is fine and I do production work in it all the time, including electronic styles. I'm not concerned about convincing other people of how fine it is- let them use Logic or whatever, who cares. I do as much live parts as MIDI parts and ProTools is perfect for crossing those boundries. If I was an all MIDI guy I would consider some other app, but ProTools is perfect for what I do.

[Bill Denton]

Originally Posted by Philthy

ProTools MIDI is fine and I do production work in it all the time, including electronic styles. I'm not concerned about convincing other people of how fine it is- let them use Logic or whatever, who cares. I do as much live parts as MIDI parts and ProTools is perfect for crossing those boundries. If I was an all MIDI guy I would consider some other app, but ProTools is perfect for what I do.

ProTools is perfect for what I do.

And that's what it all comes down to in my book.

If Pro Tools works well for you, what does it matter how well it works for someone else?

If it meets your needs, at a price point you are satisfied with, why should you choose something else just to fit into someone else's mold?

This is one of those times when I'm reminded of an interview I read with the late Roy Buchanan, one of those superb, but relatively unknown guitarists...

Q: How often do you change your strings?

RB: When they break.

Q: Don't they wear out?

RB: Probably.

But it worked for him...

[deanrichard]

IMO one of the most important differences is that PT doesn't support VST or VSTi. If you're happy with the instruments and FX that AAX, that's fine, but there are so many more options in the VST world. For people on a budget (the bedroom producers) it's important that there are many, many free instruments and plugins, and that many others are affordable. And while there are some that are mediocre or elementary, there are a surprising number that are excellent. There are also a lot of creative and unique instruments and FX available, while the AAX options often tend to be more "traditional". Nearly everything that is AAX is also available as VST, but the reverse is not even close to true.

The feature set can also be appealing to those on a budget. The ability to Freeze a VSTi track is important to someone working on a laptop or lesser computer, and it can be important for audio tracks as well.

I believe we've hit a point where you can create music in just about any major DAW, and achieve excellent results. If PT is working for you, no need to change. But others feel differently, and I understand their reasoning.

Dean

Originally Posted by DBK

Being more apart of the 'edm community' than I am recording right now, I feel like I am the only person using Pro Tools. Is it just me or should Avid be trying to grab a piece of that (continuously rising) demographic? Dont get me wrong, I know Pro Tools is fully capable of doing everything in the box that logic, reason, etc can do. Thats why I'm staying with it. My point is that NOBODY knows that it is up to par with those other daws now. I cant even tell you how many times people ask me "how the hell do you make electronic music in pro tools?".. Its the same as any other daw nowadays, its just no one knows that it is because it isn't advertised at all. People on electronic forums are still talking like Pro Tools hasn't passed version 7 yet, its like it's everyone on the internet versus me whenever a DAW debate comes up on electronic forums haha. The only thing Pro Tools is missing in that demographic is the advertisement. Im a member on lots of paid video sites for electronic music where they dont even list Pro Tools as a use able daw, its like it doesn't exist. I cant believe it. Newcomers to the industry who are getting into this because they want to make electronic music are extremely easy to manipulate. They will use what they see everyone else is using, thats the only reason FL studio is so damn popular. And they'll also believe everything they hear, which right now, is that Pro Tools cant make electronic music. That fact will never change unless AVID puts a marketing plan in place aimed directly at that demographic.

Putting the free version of pro tools out is a step in the right direction. But I dont think it will be enough unless they have a reason to use it.

People who are recording live instruments already know Pro Tools is the DAW to use, something needs to be done to make electronic musicians more aware now. That industry isn't going anywhere anytime soon.