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  #1  
Old 08-19-2005, 11:16 AM
mikejavo mikejavo is offline
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Default PT 6.9.2cs2 Inconsistent LTC Chase

We have just configured a 2.3 DP G5 with 1.5 GB RAM, running OS 10.4.2, QT 7.0.1 and Pro Tools 6.9.2cs2. The Sync I/O is Loop Master to 3 192 Digital I/O's, and references house video black. The DAE buffer size is set to 2 and the Minimum Sync Delay is 40 frames. When chasing LTC, the lock time varies from .5 seconds to 10 seconds, from the same execution point. The sessions playing back are not dense at all, and have very few fades and edits. The same problem occurs whether the session is played back from a UL3D connected SCSI drive, or the internal SATA drive. All other settings are according to Digidesign specifications.

A similar 2.0 DP G5 system running Mac OS X 10.3.8 and PT 6.4cs9 locks consistently, as well as a second G4 Mix System running much denser sessions on OS 10.3.4 and 6.4.1cs4, in the same room.

Thank you in advance for any insight.
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  #2  
Old 08-19-2005, 02:37 PM
snoopy snoopy is offline
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Default Re: PT 6.9.2cs2 Inconsistent LTC Chase

It's not just 6.9.2, it's all of 6.9. It sucks waiting around 10 seconds just to lock to timecode all the time, but Digi doesn't acknolegde this issue. I've posted before about it, but maybe you will get lucky and get a response (other than the usual trashing prefs, all around fix stuff).
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  #3  
Old 08-19-2005, 06:15 PM
mikejavo mikejavo is offline
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Default Re: PT 6.9.2cs2 Inconsistent LTC Chase

Thanks for some insight Snoopy. We have definitely done all that and more. This is a completely fresh system and Pro Tools installation. The only stable HD version of Pro Tools is 6.4cs9.

Any more insight is still greatly appreciated.
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  #4  
Old 08-20-2005, 03:48 AM
BW DoggyDawg BW DoggyDawg is offline
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Default Re: PT 6.9.2cs2 Inconsistent LTC Chase

mikejavo, except the G5 I have the same config + amount of interfaces i get the same lock times from 2-10 seconds. Sometimes it doesn´t lock at all. Bad when You have to track back to Videomachine with a client sitting beside You, when You have to start over again, (and again).
Sometimes taking PT offline and online again helps for the moment, if this doesn´t help disabling and enabling 9-Pin serial is the next step. (btw, i´m on G4 1.25 Dual)

Snoopy, i share your expirience that You´ve noticed!
I thought "my" problems were PAL related, but i´m 100% sure You both work with NTSC.

Those Fairlights (mfx3plus´es and Dreamstations) that are also integrated in the facility (where I work) lock and sync like hell, regardless if Master or Remote Mode. That´s still a problem: Some of our clients explicitly want us to work on those Fairlights, because of their lock times. On the MixCube system a Colin Broad SR-4 handles everything (Pro Tools, DigiBeta, SP and DCV-Pro), this is the fastest solution and comes close to the Fairlight lock times. It´s tremendously faster than Pro Tools on it´s own (HD system + Sync I/O) or syncing with the SSL synchronizer. If someone of You is blessed to work with a SSL, You do not even need a Sync I/O ...

BW
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  #5  
Old 08-20-2005, 08:59 AM
Danny Caccavo Danny Caccavo is offline
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Default Re: PT 6.9.2cs2 Inconsistent LTC Chase

Just to be clear, we are not seeing any of these problems in house at all, either with PAL or NTSC, with MachineControl or no MachineControl. But clearly we need to get to the bottom of what's happening.

Please check that the Hardware buffer size has not been set too high. You should have it set either to the default (256) or 512. Setting it too high can cause synchronization problems.

Please reply with the results, positive or negative, thanks!

Danny Caccavo
Digidesign
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  #6  
Old 08-21-2005, 04:27 PM
mu-tron-kid mu-tron-kid is offline
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Default Re: PT 6.9.2cs2 Inconsistent LTC Chase

Why not make PT the "Master" ?
I don't like PT to be chasing anything...
You wouldn't want your Digital Audio to be "slewing" to a Video Machine or Analog Deck anyways...

And, PT has the Easiest Transport and Locate functions of any "Machine" so, it is easier to run the whole show from the Keyboard / Mouse anyways !
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  #7  
Old 08-21-2005, 10:12 PM
BW DoggyDawg BW DoggyDawg is offline
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Default Re: PT 6.9.2cs2 Inconsistent LTC Chase

Quote:
Why not make PT the "Master" ?
I don't like PT to be chasing anything...
I´ve talked about this situation, and the Sync I/O (or PT) is not reliable.
If you are using a SR-4 you have exactly the desirable feel, that PT is handled as Master and syncing in the shortest amount of time. Unfortunatly there´s only one room equipped with a SR-4, other rooms (where I work) are Avant or MT, Fairlight + minimum HD1 up to HD3 equipped. The name of Sync I/O is a bit misleading, it doesn´t have real synchronizer-capability that´s needed, when you are working with three different video machine formats every day. That´s the reason why I sometimes (when i/we get my/our PT sync drama) use the SSL or Fairlight synchronizer and use PT in remote mode when tracking back to machine, thats still in this situation ways faster than using PT as Master. Other TV stations in Germany ( yes we are talking together) have the same problem, and our problem that everyone is seeing (except Digi) is defnitly by none of us house-sync related.

BW
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  #8  
Old 08-22-2005, 09:16 AM
snoopy snoopy is offline
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Default Re: PT 6.9.2cs2 Inconsistent LTC Chase

Quote:
Why not make PT the "Master" ?
I don't like PT to be chasing anything...
You wouldn't want your Digital Audio to be "slewing" to a Video Machine or Analog Deck anyways...

And, PT has the Easiest Transport and Locate functions of any "Machine" so, it is easier to run the whole show from the Keyboard / Mouse anyways !
While that may be fine for final printing, it's not for average use. It's much easier to sit in the center of the console and use the transport stuff there where you can listen more critically rather than turning to a computer everytime, it's a real flow buster and slows things down. And the Machine control option is iffy at best as it doesn't always work right.
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  #9  
Old 08-22-2005, 08:05 PM
snoopy snoopy is offline
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Default Re: PT 6.9.2cs2 Inconsistent LTC Chase

Thanks for the response Danny.

For the most part I have been using a 512 buffer, but switched ti 256 today based on your post. Unfortunately the problem persisted. The kicker is that it's completely random. I'd guess maybe 15-20% of the time, but because of constantly switching between PT being slave/master, it's hard to justdge.

I'm running PT HD

v6.9.1
OSX 10.3.9 (updated thinking it might fix problem when running 10.3.8, plus soundtrak needed 10.3.9)
G5 dual 2.0 w/ 2Gig RAM.
SYNC I/O
4 192's each w/ analog output expander
house sync is a rosendahl nanosync
We always use 29.97fps ND timecode
LTC is fed from SSL J9000 to PT, and vice versea.
No machine control is being used.

I'm not sure what info is important, but if you let me know, I will gladly post anything you think would be helpful. Or let us know if there is anything that if broken could maybe be cause such symptoms (bad WC cable?)

Thanks so much!
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  #10  
Old 08-23-2005, 08:45 AM
Danny Caccavo Danny Caccavo is offline
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Default Re: PT 6.9.2cs2 Inconsistent LTC Chase

Thanks for the details, Snoopy.

Switching from 512 to 256 shouldn't make a difference anyway - I only asked because twice in the last couple of months, some problems were traced to customers using a VERY high h/w buffer size.

A few questions - some of them are routine, but they have to be asked...<g>.

Are you using QuickTime in your session, and if so, does the behavior change when the movie is off-line?

Are you recording to PT when this problem occurs, or is it occuring when you change from recording to playback or vice-versa?

If you are recording, are you using QuickPunch or TrackPunch, "recording at selection" or "recording at TC lock?"

How many tracks are you recording/playing back?

Min sync delay setting? All other settings default?

When you describe the Nanosync as being "house sync," do you mean the Nanosync is providing black burst to the Sync I/O, or is it providing WC into the SYNC I/O?

Is the Sync I/O the "loop sync master?"

Do you recall problems when you were using OS X 10.3.8? (had to ask, since we don't support 10.3.9 with Pro Tools|HD).

You mention your LTC hookup - confirming that you are not using Remote Mode, and also when you say "vice versa," what *exactly* do you mean? Are you checking and unchecking the "generate TC" box in order to drive the SSL with PT-generated time code?

Now that we have the gear config, it's really important that you describe your workflow to a "T" to make sure we haven't missed anything. If you can give us a step-by-step for your master/slave operations, that would help.

Thanks!

Danny Caccavo
Digidesign
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