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  #1  
Old 10-14-2011, 05:36 PM
dayslypper dayslypper is offline
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Default Eleven Rack with Lexicon PCM92/96 in loop or in AES/EBU I/O

Hello,
I think about solution with combination of Eleven Rack and Lexicon PCM92/96 connected in the loop, or in AES/EBU connectors to improve mod/rev/dly effects.

I want to use this rig LIVE, so my question is if there will be no problem with this setting of Outputs:
* Amp output without Speaker Sim (Mono/stereo)
* XLR Stereo output with Speaker Sim (Stereo)


And where AES/EBU loop will be placed in signal chain?

Thank you for answers.
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  #2  
Old 10-14-2011, 06:47 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Eleven Rack with Lexicon PCM92/96 in loop

Some relevant things have been discussed here recently, you might want to search for these but I'll try to recap here.

There is no support in the Eleven rack for a digital FX loop. If you want the PCM92/96 in the Eleven Rack FX loop it has to be analog, along with the unnecessary extra D/A-A/D and D/A-A/D conversion.

If the Eleven Rack amp1 or amp2 output is set to amp out then speaker emulation is not passed to that amp (OK that's good). This gets confusing as its not well documented anywhere and the Eleven Rack front panel UI and control window in Pro Tools seem to indicate the amp output comes after the cab sim.

The Eleven Rack FX loop is not between the pre-amp and power amp like a real amp, it sits ether before or after the amp or after the cab (wherever you put it). If after the amp then if you want the FX loop processed signal to go to you stage amp then you need to set that amp to be sent from rig out - and then it will include the cab sim (thats often now what you want). You can turn off the cab sim globally but then your XLR Main out/FOH signal won't include the cab sim and will typically sound awful 9also now what you want).

Both support for a digital FX loop and more flexibility with cab simulation control are areas where the Eleven Rack could be improved. As much as I like the Eleven Rack if you really feel you need PCM92/96 capabilities above what the Eleven Rack can do in-box you might want to look at a Fractal Axe FX II (e.g. sell the Eleven Rack and PCM92/96). Obviously depends on exactly what you are trying to achieve. And the Axe FX products don't run the FX loop between the pre-amp and power-amp either but the amp and cab blocks are separately movable and you can control signal routing to get outputs to drive stage amps without cab simulations but after the FX loop while also driving FOH with that cab sim. The Axe-FX family does not support digital FX loops either (so get on it Avid and be first!) but the built in reverb/delay etc. effects might be enough for you.

Darryl
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  #3  
Old 10-15-2011, 02:46 AM
dayslypper dayslypper is offline
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Default Re: Eleven Rack with Lexicon PCM92/96 in loop or in AES/EBU I/O

I was afraid of this. DigiTech GSP1101 manages speaker sim problem. It has 2 DSPs so it's possible to get sound with and without speaker sim simultaneously. But globally quality of amp/speaker simulations is not so high.

This is the reason, why I'm searching the most possible solution. Axe FX would be good but I'm not sure if it's DAW / VST compatible.

So what exact signal is at Eleven Rack AES/EBU In and Out?

One another idea... what about to put Eleven Rack to digital loop in Lexicon? (if it's possible). Has Lexicon better capabilities in digital loop?


But now I found in manual (pg. 36) important information (red text):

Quote:
To set the type of signal to send to the amp:
1 Press and hold the Edit/Back button to show
the User Options mode.
2 Scroll to Outputs To Amp with the Scroll wheel.
3 Press SW1 to enter the Outputs To Amp
screen.
4 Choose the output you plan to use to feed the
amp, with the Scroll wheel.
5 Set the Signal control to one of the following,
using the first lit Control knob:
• Rig Input (no processing)
• Amp Input (pre-amp effects only)
• Amp Output (pre-amp effects and amp simu-lation)
• Rig Output (all processing)
• Rig Out No Cab (all effects and amp simulation, no speaker or microphone simulation)
So independent output of Amp outputs without Speaker Sim and XLR outputs with Speaker Sim should work.
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  #4  
Old 10-15-2011, 06:00 AM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dayslypper View Post
I was afraid of this. DigiTech GSP1101 manages speaker sim problem. It has 2 DSPs so it's possible to get sound with and without speaker sim simultaneously. But globally quality of amp/speaker simulations is not so high.

This is the reason, why I'm searching the most possible solution. Axe FX would be good but I'm not sure if it's DAW / VST compatible.

So what exact signal is at Eleven Rack AES/EBU In and Out?

One another idea... what about to put Eleven Rack to digital loop in Lexicon? (if it's possible). Has Lexicon better capabilities in digital loop?
The Axe Fx II is a USB audio interface but less capable/less IOs than the Eleven Rack.The Axe FX II also only supports 48kHz.

The digital in and out on on the Eleven Rack can be configured to be rig/guitar input, a digital line in, rig output, a general DAW output, etc. They are commonly used to connect the Eleven Rack as a outboard digital processor to a larger DAW interface.

Both products have well written manuals that are available online.

The red text you quote is confusing. if you select that option the cab sin is turned off glovally (including main XLR out). If you just choose amp out you do not get the cab/mic sim on the amp out but do on the main XLR out.

Darryl
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  #5  
Old 10-15-2011, 06:12 AM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dayslypper View Post
But I found in manual (pg. 36) important information (red text):



So independent output of Amp outputs without Speaker Sim and XLR outputs with Speaker Sim should work.
See my comment above. I warned you this is badly/confusingly documented. You can do this until you try to add a post amp FX loop (which is what you were asking right?) at which point you cannot turn off cab/mic sim just to the amp1/amp2 outs, setting the option in red turns it off globally.

Darryl
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  #6  
Old 10-15-2011, 07:37 AM
dayslypper dayslypper is offline
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Default Re: Eleven Rack with Lexicon PCM92/96 in loop or in AES/EBU I/O

Ok, ok.

So if I understand... It's possible to have different Amp out and Main out only if I will NOT use (post-preamp) stereo FX loop.


There is still one solution: Put the Lexicon to Line Inputs but I quess that original stereo signal will summed in Mono. So it's not useful.

Am I right?
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  #7  
Old 10-15-2011, 07:39 AM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Yes if you want the lexicon in a post-amp sim fx loop and want the lexicon processed signal to go to both the amp and main outputs you cannot turn off the cab to only one of them, it's all on or off.

You can if you put the FX loop before the amp sim. Probably not what you may want. You could also drive stereo inputs into the Eleven Rack fx loop return in stereo from the Lexicon acting as the guitar front end.

Darryl
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  #8  
Old 10-15-2011, 07:55 AM
dayslypper dayslypper is offline
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Default Re: Eleven Rack with Lexicon PCM92/96 in loop or in AES/EBU I/O

Or I can buy Eleven Rack Expansion Pack where is Dynamic (Stereo) Delay or play with PC with plug-ins to get advanced delays and reverbs.
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  #9  
Old 10-16-2011, 01:40 AM
dayslypper dayslypper is offline
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Default Re: Eleven Rack with Lexicon PCM92/96 in loop or in AES/EBU I/O

What are the options to move order of effects? There is information in manual about it but no explanation. It is possible to move with FX loop?
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  #10  
Old 10-16-2011, 08:17 AM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Yes you can move the order of fx sims around and you can put the physical fx loop in the chain before or after the amp or cab block but you cannot put it between the pre-amp and power amp stages (the amp sim is just one block) or between the amp sim and speaker sim (they are always adjacent/coupled),

There has been talk here in the past, including from Avid staff, about making the cab and amp blocks really seperate and I expect that would help many folks who are having issues with stage amps like you (as long as amp1/amp2 could be set to the post FX return blended signal).

Darryl
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