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  #41  
Old 10-22-2021, 03:17 PM
daeron80 daeron80 is offline
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Default Re: Apple MacBook Pro M1 Pro & M1 Max!

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Originally Posted by K Roche View Post
perhaps we can rethink the amount of RAM necessary to what our specific work flows are
Only if you plan to trade up in a couple years. There's no such thing as too much RAM. If you don't use it all today, you will tomorrow, no matter how much it is. Max it out in the interest of future-proofing.
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  #42  
Old 10-22-2021, 03:43 PM
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Eric Lambert Eric Lambert is offline
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Default Re: Apple MacBook Pro M1 Pro & M1 Max!

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Originally Posted by daeron80 View Post
Only if you plan to trade up in a couple years. There's no such thing as too much RAM. If you don't use it all today, you will tomorrow, no matter how much it is. Max it out in the interest of future-proofing.
This is simply not true. To designate a necessary amount of memory you'd first need to understand what the operator is doing with their computer, but that wasn't a factor in your statement. It's is certainly a possibility that even 16GB could be overkill for a user. On the PC gamer side, where nothing is ever too much, it's common for them to suggest that anything above 16GB is unnecessary. For someone working purely with audio, you might never come close to 16 over the life of the computer.

If we were talking CPU horsepower then I'd agree. Even the insane potential of these new Macs will one day be tapped (probably by Atmos reverbs and/or VIs). But suggesting that everyone should buy the maximum amount of RAM under all conditions is just bad advice.
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  #43  
Old 10-22-2021, 03:47 PM
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K Roche K Roche is online now
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Default Re: Apple MacBook Pro M1 Pro & M1 Max!

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Originally Posted by daeron80 View Post
Only if you plan to trade up in a couple years. There's no such thing as too much RAM. If you don't use it all today, you will tomorrow, no matter how much it is. Max it out in the interest of future-proofing.
While I tend to agree with the notion of future proofing and buy as much machine as you can afford including RAM and so I got my iMac with maxed RAM
BUT -----
I think that is a different concept than recognizing "All RAM" is not equal or allow for the fact that a less amount, of more efficient RAM, may well give superior performance than possibly double the RAM from less efficient RAM.....
Which was my point about perhaps rethinking what is necessary to accomplish any given work flow. Specifically someone made comment that "64 GB of RAM was not enough to do serious orchestral scoring " And since I do not do that kind of workflow I don't know maybe it isn't..... But the question is ,,,,,is that assumption based on traditional RAM, if so then given the serious performance difference with unified RAM maybe it could be ???
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Last edited by K Roche; 10-22-2021 at 03:57 PM.
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  #44  
Old 10-22-2021, 04:07 PM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
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Default Re: Apple MacBook Pro M1 Pro & M1 Max!

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Originally Posted by Eric Lambert View Post
This is simply not true. To designate a necessary amount of memory you'd first need to understand what the operator is doing with their computer, but that wasn't a factor in your statement. It's is certainly a possibility that even 16GB could be overkill for a user. On the PC gamer side, where nothing is ever too much, it's common for them to suggest that anything above 16GB is unnecessary. For someone working purely with audio, you might never come close to 16 over the life of the computer.

If we were talking CPU horsepower then I'd agree. Even the insane potential of these new Macs will one day be tapped (probably by Atmos reverbs and/or VIs). But suggesting that everyone should buy the maximum amount of RAM under all conditions is just bad advice.
There are two things in life you can never have too much of. The first is money and the second is ram. Buy as much ram as you can upfront because with the last few generations of Macs in a lot of them you can't upgrade ram later. I have 48 gig, work 99% in audio and regularly use up 32+ gig of that ram. I run a lot of sample-based vi's and they chew ram space like crazy.
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  #45  
Old 10-22-2021, 07:15 PM
Obsidian Dragon Obsidian Dragon is offline
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Default Re: Apple MacBook Pro M1 Pro & M1 Max!

I personally would get as much RAM as I can afford, but that is just for my preference. I think the use of RAM to make sample based audio readily available for use in a DAW made sense when spinner hard drives could not provision the sample data fast enough. That was 15-30 years ago. Today's SSD with increased throughput for storage is faster by several magnitudes and should be capable of provisioning sample based data adequately for DAW use. The technology of loading sample data into RAM still exist and continue to work even though it may not really be necessary with most modern systems. On most Macs, the RAM is fixed (soldered onto the logic board) or in the case of M1, M1Pro, and M1Max, the unified RAM is part of the "system on a a chip" architecture. The fact that you can not increase the RAM by adding more later means that consumers need to determine how much they need for the duration of owning the computer at the time of purchasing the computer. If 16GB is sufficient, great. If 32 is enough, go for it. If you need 64 GB, that is available with an M1Max. If you are convinced that you need more, then you'll need to stick with Intel based Macs with expandable memory for now (or use a Windows machine). If I'm not mistaken, most of the large sample based libraries can be configured to use RAM to hold the sample data or allow it to stream from the storage. I suggest if you are one of those using huge RAM in your system to make use of these sample libraries, you may want to try "not" loading them into RAM and allow them to stream from the SSD to see if performance is adequate (I'm willing to think that it is if your storage subsystem is a modern one). What I am suggesting is that we may be misguided into thinking that we must use RAM as the holding place for samples when the SSD is more than adequate for the task. I am open minded and willing to hear your results. If using the SSD in place of RAM for sample data sucks, please share that with us here so we can all make informed choices.
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  #46  
Old 10-22-2021, 07:58 PM
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Eric Lambert Eric Lambert is offline
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Default Re: Apple MacBook Pro M1 Pro & M1 Max!

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Originally Posted by Obsidian Dragon View Post
The fact that you can not increase the RAM by adding more later means that consumers need to determine how much they need for the duration of owning the computer at the time of purchasing the computer. If 16GB is sufficient, great. If 32 is enough, go for it. If you need 64 GB, that is available with an M1Max.
I also agree with the notion that 'you'll probably need more tomorrow than you need today.' Even though the poster earlier was correct in stating that these new Macs change ram efficiency. However, I cannot disagree more with anyone suggesting that ram needs to be mindlessly maxed out in every case (not that you suggested this - you'd actually said what I did: that there are considerations). 64GB is an option. As I'd mentioned above, there are many audio professionals who will never, in their careers, come close to needing that much. In their cases, it's bad advice for anyone to suggest that they should default to the limits of what is offered.

Yes, get more than you need, because, as you said, it's not going to be easy to upgrade -- and probably impossible -- down the road.
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  #47  
Old 10-22-2021, 09:14 PM
Sardi Sardi is offline
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Default Re: Apple MacBook Pro M1 Pro & M1 Max!

I agree Eric. Throwing more RAM at something doesn’t magically fix problems or make the app perform better. If it’s not utilising the RAM to begin with, adding more won’t make it work better.

If you need it for large memory addressing VIs, sure. But as you rightly pointed out, 16GB RAM is totally workable. That’s all I have on my production machine and I have NEVER hit a ceiling in terms of RAM usage. In fact, the only time I’ve had an issue is with my web browser. I have a bad habit of having a LOT of tabs open so the caching of pages eats up RAM. That coupled with the fact modern browsers are just insane memory hogs.


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  #48  
Old 10-22-2021, 09:50 PM
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EGS EGS is offline
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Default Re: Apple MacBook Pro M1 Pro & M1 Max!

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... you may want to try "not" loading them into RAM and allow them to stream from the SSD ...
^^^ interesting.

1) Is there a setting or pref somewhere to tell a VI to "preload into RAM" vs "stream from SSD"? Does it work differently for each vendor? Each plug? I've got a smattering of VIs from XLN Audio, IK Multimedia, Waves, AVID stock ones, & maybe some others. Not sure how they load up (I use VIs only occasionally).

2) Also, does enabling Pro Tools disk cache pre-load a session's video file into RAM as well, or is that just for audio?

In general though, lots of RAM is a good way to (somewhat) future-proof your rig. It can help out in certain apps too, like video edit pgms or opening a million browser tabs etc. If you're planning to spend 4-5K on a laptop, you might as well get more RAM.
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  #49  
Old 10-22-2021, 10:34 PM
Sardi Sardi is offline
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Default Re: Apple MacBook Pro M1 Pro & M1 Max!

NI Kontakt has that setting in the preferences for the app. Not sure about others, but I dare say it would be somewhere in the setup/prefs menu.


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  #50  
Old 10-23-2021, 01:11 AM
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Eric Lambert Eric Lambert is offline
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Default Re: Apple MacBook Pro M1 Pro & M1 Max!

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Originally Posted by Sardi View Post
16GB RAM is totally workable. That’s all I have on my production machine and I have NEVER hit a ceiling in terms of RAM usage. In fact, the only time I’ve had an issue is with my web browser. I have a bad habit of having a LOT of tabs open so the caching of pages eats up RAM. That coupled with the fact modern browsers are just insane memory hogs.
I'm not surprised. Our mix rooms have 32GB, and they work on massive 5.1 sessions. Never a ram error message, and the memory meter hardly leaves port. CPU, sure, but not ram. Roughly half our composers have 16GB and half have 32 and no one has complained in ages.

If I were ordering one of these new laptops I'd personally spring for 32.
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