23.976 -> 25 Pitching whole session?

[Space]

Hello,

I'm receiving project that will have NTSC and PAL versions, which won't be identical, as there are different length requirements. All footage is in NTSC and we should have NTSC version ready first.

Due to lengthened PAL version, I was toying around idea that I could pull up whole finished NTSC Pro Tools session (not just stems) and maybe matchbox it with PAL AAF to get good starting point. It was all going to plan in testing, BUT I found out that I'm unable to keep Lav tracks in phase with boom after shifting them with Pitch 'n' Time Pro. Has anybody any idea how to achieve this? It won't be in phase with multi-input mode, or mono mode.

I'm following this old Pro Tools Expert article:
https://www.production-expert.com/ho...ro-cc-and.html

I have done these conversions only from stems, but now it is not possible, as the PAL version has different scene lengths or completely new ones.


Has anyone done something like this?

[minister]

Originally Posted by Space

Has anybody any idea how to achieve this? It won't be in phase with multi-input mode, or mono mode.

I wouldn't think to approach the job as you are. But if the above is your only issue, then run Sound Radix Align Post 2 to get the 2 mics back in phase.

[Space]

Originally Posted by minister

I wouldn't think to approach the job as you are. But if the above is your only issue, then run Sound Radix Align Post 2 to get the 2 mics back in phase.

Hi, thanks for reply. How you would approach this? I’’m open to suggestions as this is something I haven’t done before.

[minister]

Originally Posted by Space

Hi, thanks for reply. How you would approach this? I’’m open to suggestions as this is something I haven’t done before.

You said this:

Originally Posted by Space

I have done these conversions only from stems, but now it is not possible, as the PAL version has different scene lengths or completely new ones.

Then my first question would be, why is it not possible to do the stem conversion BECAUSE there will be different scene lengths? Of course the scenes will be different lengths, they are converting the frame rate of the picture. Doesn't the speed change of the stem account for that? I don't understand why it wouldn't (unless they were using different kind of frame rate conversion).

I am presuming that you will do a speed change and a pitch change to the stems.

After that, you get a PAL AAF of the new scenes (or maybe it is the whole film) and import the audio of the new scenes into your PAL Stem session. Then I suppose you have to do some scene conforming (moving things about) based on how they "added" new scenes. Meaning, how and where are they inserting the new scenes. You may have to chop up the new stems to match. But maybe that won't be that difficult if they are only adding a scene or two.

One of the issues I see about a clip level conversion to the whole session, is automation following the audio conversion. I doubt it would. The speed change is done by means of sample rate clock manipulation, and I don't see how the automation would follow that. Are the breakpoints tied to a sample?

[Space]

Hi, thanks for the idea of using stems as hybrid with new scenes. That’s something worth looking in to.

The main problem is that I currently don’t know if thet just slap new scenes on to the timeline or completely recut current ones to match the flow of different framerate. I have feeling that it is going to be both.

I had movie project that was similar to this, but the director used different takes on different versions. In the end we ended up conforming the project by hand… or what was left to conform. Basically it was new movie with sameish scenes recut and moved around. This is something I’m trying to avoid if possible. This time at least they use same takes :)

[Frank Kruse]

If I were you I would avoid changing speed of the original material at all cost. It sounds like these are not really NTSC or PAL version but rather different cuts of the same film (which end up as pal or ntsc) so I'd just treat them as such. Work at the original speed and at the very end do your speed conversion.
Once you change the speed BEFORE the deliverables you'll have to do that for every single production sound you might add during dialogue editing. Makes no sense to do the ADR to two different speeds twice either.

Just treat these as two different cuts of the same film, edit, mix, finalise both versions at original speed and convert it at the very end like with any other film that needs deliverables at a different frame rate.

Doing it with the source tracks is asking for trouble and sounds like a world of pain.

[Ray JB]

What Frank says is indeed the best approach.
Stay original speed, use the best pitch conversion for each stem group with each delivery accounting for phase/imaging etc.
Often one method may give great results on say, the music. Another for dialog.
We generally aim for speed change via SRC within ProTools as the math is a little more solid than relying on a plug-in to do both speed and pitch in one hit.