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  #1  
Old 07-25-2022, 09:40 PM
RackAddict RackAddict is offline
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Default Is this normal for an HD i/o? Inside Side wall gone

Added an HD io used here. The Long McQuade store said it's a good deal at 1799 Canadian. Has an analog input module with the +4 balanced and -10 balanced input both db25 connectors, then there's the analog output section, also with Db connectors although I'm not sure what I'm gonna use that for as I'm using the one on my omni for the headphone amp and an alternate pair of monitors.
Did I get a 16x8 or something? Am new to HDX here.
I'm just waiting for an HDX core card arriving Saturday.

And also has a Digital I/O module for Aes/EBU.
Below that is a missing cover panel and on the inside there is a side perforated wall in side and on the right of the empty space covering the digi-link port section but to the left there is no side wall divider where the bottom left analog module is (inside) and I'm a buit concerned about that. I've attached a picture below. Also. Don't know what the word punctured holes are with some sort of socket under the analo Db connectors lke a row of punched out holes and metal screw heads.

I got a it for 1799 Canadian plus tax but I see ones on reverb for as low as just over 1correcanadian but only with digital modules. Is mine still the better deal? It was a demo model.

Finally, this is what I want to send to black lion for the mods but that's a long wait, can an electronics repair person do all those upgrades? I don't even need the new clock I clock to an antelope. I just need all the analog signal paths and op amps and converters upgraded. I was told that the improvement is subtle but can be heard more notably as clearer audio if you are on very high end monitors like adams with the ribbon tweeters but not so much ad more just a psychoacoustic effect on the overrated and grittier Yamaha HS7 "budget industry standard" .

I sold those yamahas and went for Adam T7Vs and they sound whey better and have that very expensive sound to them despite only costing what the yamahas cost. They certainly sound 10x more expensive than what I paid. And trust me when you go ribbons, you NEVER come back other than for some brief reference. Listening hours are more extended with less fatigue and all the silky clarity to go along with it!

(I would have bought the 10,000 dollars Adams now that I know how amazing that company is, but all this pro tools HDX stuff has just about robbed the budget).

My question point is am I correct to assume that a BLA mod or if I get someone else to do the same mods, if they will have a more noticeable effect on my T7V monitors as opposed to a person upgrading their Adams to even higher end Adams?

And are these mods doable by anyone in electronics or is BLA the only ones suitable to do that?

If it's snake oil then I will find out when I compare inputs on my unmodded Omni HD. But I'm just wondering if the effect is obvious on the best monitors like Adam S3V which cost basically a fortune? Or will the effect still be pretty obvious on mine?

I have no reason to think that company is snake oil I heard all their pres and they sound better than the ones they are influenced off.

Finally, pro tools Education. I only did the 100 series 101 and 110 but I never did the 200 series. And may not for another year. So does anyone know if there is a free or cheaper equivalent to the official training?



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Last edited by RackAddict; 07-25-2022 at 09:53 PM.
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  #2  
Old 07-25-2022, 10:41 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Is this normal for an HD i/o? Inside Side wall gone

What *exactly* did the advertisement/store say it was selling? Since a "HD I/O" is not a full specification. What you ended up with is a "HD IO 8x8x8" (i.e. 8 analog in, 8 analog out, 8 digital) with a missing blank cover plate.

I guess your price for an 8x8x8 was OK, you should compare to Ebay completed auctions for Canada. I can find them a few hundred dollars cheaper in the USA, maybe they are higher in Canada with less availability. I expect the prices of these to continue down as folks get off Digilink, given the economics of running HD Native for smaller setups don't make sense.

The HD Digital interfaces model (no analog IO at all) will be cheaper again, you need to spend time to understand what you are buying.

Black Lion markets their proprietary upgrades/snake oil. If you want those mods you go to Black Lion. If anybody else is developing and marketing their own upgrades you go to them. You would find them with a Google search. No, Black Lion mods will not be "obvious". And who cares that much about line inputs? spend the money on better preamps. Spending ~US$2,500 to "upgrade" a 16x16 is insanity. Why not just buy a MTRX Studio? Higher end stuff all around and it's not an end of life product. And ditch the Omni... especially if you only have one HDX card.

If I needed the HDX magic (I don't, so it's all a non-starter, I'd not be trapped in Digilink land with HD Native vs just use a USB or Thunderbolt interface(s)) and higher end converters if on Windows I'd look at a MTRX Studio or MTRX for $$$. Or since I love RME gear, leverage DigiLink digital IO and hang a 12Mic or 1610 Pro off the HD IO Digital (even better pick up a used MADI box and hang RME converters off that).

Last edited by Darryl Ramm; 07-25-2022 at 11:13 PM.
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  #3  
Old 07-26-2022, 12:12 AM
BScout BScout is offline
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Default Re: Is this normal for an HD i/o? Inside Side wall gone

+1 for what Darryl said
If you want better, get better converters (MTRX, etc) or pre amps. BLA is nonsense.
The HDIO 8x8x8 is what it looks like (with a missing cover.)

Hard to keep track on your speaker tangent. So, bluntly, my stereo set of monitors is more than x2.5 your "cost a fortune" Adams. Still wouldn't care about the BLA snake oil. MTRX, Merging, Lynx, Burl are all in the ballpark price of the waste of money that is a BLA mod HDIO.

As for Pro Tools "education" courses... why are you doing it? If just to learn, there are plenty of cheap/free tutorials. If to get a job in the industry, absolutely no studio is going to care about Pro Tools "certification." Experience, apprenticeship, and a trial period where you show your skills, attitude, and efficiency will get you a job.
(When I used to hire, listing Pro Tools certification would be a slight mark against a candidate because it meant they were really, really green to the industry.)
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  #4  
Old 07-26-2022, 11:14 AM
RackAddict RackAddict is offline
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Default Re: Is this normal for an HD i/o? Inside Side wall gone

HDX with omni because I like the instant response when playing guitar. Only HDX is the system that I've tested that when you tap your pick on the pickup, you feel it instant out of the monitors.

Everything else lags except for maybe HD native at 32 buffer but I only get about 15 seconds of recording time max on 32 buffer HD native before small cut out. And I need to print with dsp analog emulation so I assume I can go into an aux with dip and route to a track immediately printed.

Coupled with an I/o for all the hardware synths, Eventide rack, my two ISA two pre channels to comp and Fractal Afx3 so I'm not using a dreadful patchbay.

I'm not sure why I would want to get rid of the omni because it's amazing with all this and 've had it for 8 years. I am not buying one fresh and I don't need a new interface. But I figure it could use some upgrades. Or maybe just the I/O can get the mods. I'm not worried about clocking upgrades I clock to an antelope isochrone ocx.

And why an MTRX when the computer is an HPz820? It's not like I need top top top level. And how much better are the converters really? The i/o mod I need is 1500. What's an MTRX? 6 grand? Still need an HDX card for that. What if I find someone to mod the i/o for less?

And btw my HDX core card only costed a barter to a nord rack a1r and a tad more.


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Last edited by RackAddict; 07-26-2022 at 11:29 AM.
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  #5  
Old 07-26-2022, 12:12 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Is this normal for an HD i/o? Inside Side wall gone

Quote:
Originally Posted by RackAddict View Post
HDX with omni because I like the instant response when playing guitar. Only HDX is the system that I've tested that when you tap your pick on the pickup, you feel it instant out of the monitors.

Everything else lags except for maybe HD native at 32 buffer but I only get about 15 seconds of recording time max on 32 buffer HD native before small cut.
OK, but nobody was asking why you want HDX. We understand what HDX does. I made clear in my "Digilink not making sense" comment was about Pro Tools HD Native (not HDX).

Quote:
I'm not sure why I would want to get rid of the omni because it's amazing with all this and 've had it for 8 years. I'm not buying it fresh. But I figure it could use some upgrades. Or maybe just the I/O can. I'm not worried about clocking upgrades I clock to an antelope isochrone ocx.
I commented about getting rid of the Omni if buying an MTRX Studio and (as I stated) you had a single HDX card, the reason for that should be obvious... the MTRX Studio will use all the Digilink connectivity off a single HDX card, so unless you wanted to hang the Omni off the MTRX Studio via ADAT you would not be able to connect it to your system. And since you seem to be down the rat hole of Black Lion mods the reason for getting a Studio would be to get better/new whole generation of conversion technology, so why would you then want to keep an older gen/worse sounding Omni?

You will never hear any difference (in a double blind test) with any clock on these systems vs. an Antelope Isochrone, or any other master clock. You seem to be chasing a lot of snake oil here.

If I was chasing better audio quality that isochrone and omni would be on Reverb for sale so fast and replaced by a MTRX Studio or if really me, likely a HD Madi box and some latest gen RME converters..

Quote:
And why an MTRX when the computer is an HPz820? It's not like I need top top top level.
Huh? What had your computer model got to do with wether you would buy a MTRX or not? We are mentioning MTRX Studio and MTRX because you are talking about the ridiculous and expensive BLA mods to an old end of life HD interfaces seemingly to chase "top top top level" goals.

Quote:
And btw my HDX core card only costed a barter to a nord rack a1r and a tad more.
Great, HDX is wonderful technology. But it also costs you the ongoing difference in price between Studio and Ultimate licensing (fewer people now need Ultimate software features outside larger sessions/advanced automation and film/video post work) and traps you in Digilink IO ... which you can largely address the cost of for project studios with used HD gear... well if you then don't waste money with BLA hype mods. And hopefully you understand the DSP limits of a single HDX card, and will be fine with smaller sessions and/or hybrid engine.
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Old 07-26-2022, 01:27 PM
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albee1952 albee1952 is offline
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Default Re: Is this normal for an HD i/o? Inside Side wall gone

Back to the original question; the last owner probably had an extra(optional) card for 8 more analog inputs(or outputs) and they probably lost the original cover plate(but kept the extra card). Feel free to use it as is, or fill that slot with a card for 8 more ins or outs if you have the need. As to all the discussion over sound quality, I'll take a different approach and suggest you make great music with the tools you have. If you can't make a great recording with the OMNI and HD IO, its not the hardware(how many hits were done on black-face ADAT machines? Heck, Springsteen even did an album on a PortaStudio). Does a MTRX sound better? Depends on what you put into it(performer>mic>preamp>...). Will it make the difference between a hit and a miss? I seriously doubt it

BTW, if you do decide to add a card in that open slot, know that 192 cards DO NOT work. It must be an HD IO card.
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Last edited by albee1952; 07-26-2022 at 04:14 PM.
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  #7  
Old 07-26-2022, 06:50 PM
RackAddict RackAddict is offline
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Default Re: Is this normal for an HD i/o? Inside Side wall gone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
OK, but nobody was asking why you want HDX. We understand what HDX does. I made clear in my "Digilink not making sense" comment was about Pro Tools HD Native (not HDX).







I commented about getting rid of the Omni if buying an MTRX Studio and (as I stated) you had a single HDX card, the reason for that should be obvious... the MTRX Studio will use all the Digilink connectivity off a single HDX card, so unless you wanted to hang the Omni off the MTRX Studio via ADAT you would not be able to connect it to your system. And since you seem to be down the rat hole of Black Lion mods the reason for getting a Studio would be to get better/new whole generation of conversion technology, so why would you then want to keep an older gen/worse sounding Omni?



You will never hear any difference (in a double blind test) with any clock on these systems vs. an Antelope Isochrone, or any other master clock. You seem to be chasing a lot of snake oil here.



If I was chasing better audio quality that isochrone and omni would be on Reverb for sale so fast and replaced by a MTRX Studio or if really me, likely a HD Madi box and some latest gen RME converters..







Huh? What had your computer model got to do with wether you would buy a MTRX or not? We are mentioning MTRX Studio and MTRX because you are talking about the ridiculous and expensive BLA mods to an old end of life HD interfaces seemingly to chase "top top top level" goals.





Great, HDX is wonderful technology. But it also costs you the ongoing difference in price between Studio and Ultimate licensing (fewer people now need Ultimate software features outside larger sessions/advanced automation and film/video post work) and traps you in Digilink IO ... which you can largely address the cost of for project studios with used HD gear... well if you then don't waste money with BLA hype mods. And hopefully you understand the DSP limits of a single HDX card, and will be fine with smaller sessions and/or hybrid engine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post






I commented about getting rid of the Omni if buying an MTRX Studio and (as I stated) you had a single HDX card, the reason for that should be obvious... the MTRX Studio will use all the Digilink connectivity off a single HDX card, so unless you wanted to hang the Omni off the MTRX Studio via ADAT you would not be able to connect it to your system. And since you seem to be down the rat hole of Black Lion mods the reason for getting a Studio would be to get better/new whole generation of conversion technology, so why would you then want to keep an older gen/worse sounding Omni?
Because the level of BLA mods would get would not be that expensive. I spoke to them and they can do all the line level stuff and converter stuff without doing the clock since I'm clocking with o'clock off a dedicated rack for that.
Also because I found a very good price on an 8x8x8 so are you saying a single HDX card cannot run my I/O digilinked to my avid?


Quote:

You will never hear any difference (in a double blind test) with any clock on these systems vs. an Antelope Isochrone, or any other master clock. You seem to be chasing a lot of snake oil here.



If I was chasing better audio quality that isochrone and omni would be on Reverb for sale so fast and replaced by a MTRX Studio or if really me, likely a HD Madi box and some latest gen RME converters..
.

I am considering it but since I do believe in BLA and know that top producers swear by them, I don't know what improvement I would get from an MTRX over BLA Modded Omni with i/o.
What can I get for the omni? A grand? Hd native card maybe another grand CAD and maybe 500 for the Isochrone? And I'm still short of inputs! What about AES? Need to run my axe FX 3 and Eventide in Aes and having both the omni and the HD i/o takes care of that.

If I return the HD io, then I get my 2G CAD back. Am only at 4500CAD here. Unless you are counting the BLA mod price. I would only do the HD i/o. But this is not about money unless I have to expand the MTRX to whatever expansion goes with that because this is about having enough inputs permanently connected. Three stereo hardware synths, up to 4 mic pre channels, taking at least 2 stereo input sets for the axe FX 3, as well as it's AES into the omni, AES for the Eventide H7600 and possibly repeat analog of that stereo out signal off the Eventide.

MTRX may be better but I will be short of inputs.

And I'm also certain BLA would make the I/O as good as the MTRX signal quality and maybe even better. Everyone who I have heard has reported on it swear by it to be mastering grade.
How would you be certain they are not improving things to this level? If the answer is yes then I would lose going to MTRX instead. (May I ask are you an avid insider?)





Quote:

Huh? What had your computer model got to do with wether you would buy a MTRX or not? We are mentioning MTRX Studio and MTRX because you are talking about the ridiculous and expensive BLA mods to an old end of life HD interfaces seemingly to chase "top top top level" goals.
I don't know, matching generations? I mean I got a ridiculous deal on an hd w/o according to other opinions so I have tons of inputs. But it's more a mental thing for me to just match generations a bit more. Otherwise I will then want a new computer again and it just never ends.



Quote:

Great, HDX is wonderful technology. But it also costs you the ongoing difference in price between Studio and Ultimate licensing (fewer people now need Ultimate software features outside larger sessions/advanced automation and film/video post work) and traps you in Digilink IO ... which you can largely address the cost of for project studios with used HD gear... well if you then don't waste money with BLA hype mods. And hopefully you understand the DSP limits of a single HDX card, and will be fine with smaller sessions and/or hybrid engine.
Right now I am under the impression from my LM sales man that I can use the HDX core card with my omni linked to my HD i/o, get all the inputs I need. Are you saying I will not be able to run the multiple inputs? What do you mean by limited sessions? Do you mean limited as to how much stuff I will be able to simultaneously track or do I have it wrong with the HD i/o configuration assumptions?

He also said at that point I can onsider to test out BLA on one of my racks since he is a guy who has done BLA and has said they had made one of his interfaces better sounding.

So how is selling the three racks including the antelope to get an MTRX going to be better than this?

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Last edited by RackAddict; 07-26-2022 at 07:02 PM.
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  #8  
Old 07-26-2022, 07:14 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Default Re: Is this normal for an HD i/o? Inside Side wall gone

What a pile of rambling nonsense. If you've already made up your mind here and "know" stuff like what mods are great why are you wasting other users time here asking questions?

I said you can't connect an Omni and a MTRX studio to a HDX card, you would (if using it normally) run out of Digilink connectivity with all the IO that comes in the MTRX studio which should be obvious, might be able to run the MTRX Studio with one Digilink connection and it's digital IO missing, don't know, read the manual. I did not say anything about an Omni connected with a HD IO. Clearly that works.

Quote:
? Do you mean limited as to how much stuff I will be able to simultaneously track or do I have it wrong with the HD i/o configuration assumptions?
I already lead you down the path, knocked on the front door for you... I asked do you understand the DSP restrictions of a HDX card. Do you? If not open up the Pro Tools Reference Guide and read about this, you will want to understand DSP resources and voices and realize they are not unlimited. That is all.

I say stuff and you half assed misquote what I say back and instead of gaining clarity you are going around in circles of new confusion so I'm, done with you. Sales reps on commission selling you mods and master clocks will be happy to help you out.
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