Feature requests for "Digi 003" and PTLE 7 for 5.1

[DrDVD]

The following is a feature request I just submitted to Digi. I'd be interested to hear from others who are currently using PTLE and wishing it supported 5.1 surround and 192KHz audio.

Hi,

Here are my respectful requests for a "Digi 003 Rack" that would allow me to stay on the PTLE platform (rather than unhappily abandoning PTLE to use Nuendo 3 exclusively) as I work increasingly in 5.1 surround.

Software:
1. 5.1 surround support - including audio tracks, auxes, master faders, plug-ins, and virtual instruments (absolutely *essential* for my work)
2. 32-bit/64-bit floating point processing (especially to improve quality of track summing and plug-in processing)
3. True multi-processor support (the lack of this is really aggravating every time the CPU maxes out and i know there's another one under the hood but Digi won't take advantage of it)
4. 192KHz sample rate support
5. AAF/OMF/MP3 import/export as standard feature (no one else makes us pay extra for these basics)
5. Support for 64-bit files (e.g. Apple's new 64-bit Core Audio format)

Hardware:
1. 5.1 monitoring support
2. 192KHz sample rate support
3. Standard 25-pin AES I/O with 8 channels of single-wire 192KHz support*
4. Word clock I/O (many competing products have this basic feature, even less expensive ones)
5. Standard 25-pin balanced +4 analog I/O*
6. Two headphone jacks with separate volume control
7. Talkback mic input

* Like competing products, the Digi 003 should provide 18 tracks of 192KHz I/O: 8 analog, 8 AES, and 2 S/PDIF (I don't use lightpipe, but I know others still do and they want SMUX support).

I would also like to ask you to consider creating a 3rd product in the Digi 003 family (in addition to the control-surface product and the 2U rack product). What I *really* want is a 1U mobile pro I/O with the following features:
- No mic preamps (I never use the built-in preamps anyway; I only use top-end outboard preamps and channel strips)
- Standard 25-pin balanced +4 analog I/O (to interface with my high-end outboard gear via standard 25-pin-to XLR snakes)
- Standard 25-pin AES I/O (supporting single-wire 192KHz)
- Coaxial/optical S/PDIF (supporting single-wire 192KHz)
- Word clock I/O
- Two headphone jacks (w/independent volume control)
- Alternate I/O on RCA as with Digi 002
- If you can't squeeze MIDI into this box, that would be OK with me (I can always use a USB Midi interface if needed)

I would buy this even without the analog I/O - just give me a 16-channel AES I/O unit that I can use with my own high-end converters and I'd be thrilled. Call it the Digi 003d or whatever - the PTLE counterpart to your 192 Digital I/O.

I could go on with wish list items (Nuendo's Play Order Track is great, for example, and full VST instrument support...), but I'd rather limit this list to just those features that are truly most important to me in my day-to-day work.

I am a producer, engineer, and recording artist working on Pro Tools since version 4, and I love the interface, but now that well over half of the projects I'm working on are in 5.1, I've had to work increasingly in Nuendo. I don't really love Nuendo (the features are GREAT, and the sound is, IMHO, subtly better than PTLE, due in part to 32-bit floating point processing, but I really *dislike* the Nuendo GUI), and I love the Pro Tools interface (and the ease of transporting sessions between my home studio and commercial studios), but PTLE's lack of support for 5.1 and several other important features that have become standard on competing products has forced me to move back and forth between PTLE and Nuendo (now using version 3), and the more I work in Nuendo, I ask myself, "Why keep working in Pro Tools at all when Nuendo does so much more for so much less?"

The popular conspiracy theory is that Digidesign purposely cripples PTLE (in comparison to every other major host-based DAW application on the market) in order to "encourage" its customers to upgrade to HD systems. Well, I respect Digidesign's wish to maximize profits, but just to be perfectly clear, I'm skeptical that this strategy will actually increase profits in the long run (especially the more powerful host systems become). In any case, I'm an example of a customer Digi will sooner lose than upsell.

There are four reasons I won't buy an HD system:

1. Money - I'm not spending $10k+ on TDM hardware to do what Nuendo can do for far less on a high-end G5 (and, arguably, sound better). It's not really that I don't have the money, but I'd rather spend it on high-end mics, preamps, and converters so my recordings *sound* better... which, after all, is what recording is all about - so I'm willing to put up with the Nuendo GUI if it helps me afford better-sounding gear to make better-sounding recordings.

2. Mobility - As a working producer, I often travel to wherever my jobs are, and I often bring my basic system with me. I'm not about to travel with a rack full of TDM gear; I just need a FireWire interface and a few boutique mic preamps in my rack. I also do quite a bit of location recording (including more 192KHz orchestral projects these days).

3. Space - I have a small studio with limited rack space and don't like clutter, so even in the studio size is a concern.

4. Principle - Like many of my associates and others whose posts I read on various forums, I don't like the extortionate practice of hobbling the product I buy (limiting its features to be far less than what my host computer can handle) to get me to upgrade to a dramatically more expensive product. I just won't do it.

I *really really really* would like to be able to stay in PTLE (and sell my copy of Nuendo), but I can't do it without the features I listed above. I've pretty much decided that if PTLE 7 and the Digi 003 (or whatever it will be called) come out *without* these features, I'll need to sell my Digi 002 and sadly move to a 100% Nuendo workflow. I'm really hoping the opposite will be the case. Please take this into careful consideration.

Sincere thanks for hearing me out.

[Slim Shady]

I'd be interested to hear from others who are currently using PTLE and wishing it supported 5.1 surround and 192KHz audio.

I think we'd all like those options, and most of the others you list. As you also mentioned however, these things are missing from PTLE on purpose to encourage the upgrade to HD systems. This model seems to be working pretty well for Digi, as the majority of home-studio LE users don't, and won't ever, notice the more 'pro' features are missing. It's a nicely written and well pointed feature request, unfortunately the majority of all those features already exist in a current product, so you're basically asking Digi to re-visit their entire business plan because it doesn't meet your needs. I feel your pain, but I'd start your Nuendo transition sooner than later (not sure why that's your choice, but to each his own).

[Sacred Spirit]

I am all for a 5.1/7.1 solution for Digi LE software. It is available in so many other packages with very interesting implementations. I use Vegas 5 for this right now and love it.

If LE were to implement a simple track builder, something like an 'consolidated aux track' with intelligent panning patterns, this would go a long way for 5.1 surround buffs.

Music today, besides the 'classics', is no longer placed on a stage. This was simply a limtation of economics and show. With much of today's music, you become center stage, and the music becomes your environment.

Within a decade or so, you will see 3 dimensional interactive audio visuals that will make all this seem antiquated. There are lots of companies out there that foster innovation for the masses.

Digi's policy here is outdated. I can understand a time lag for implementing current technology for lower end systems, but this should be in their plan in order to keep up with competition.

I didn't go for HD, I went with Sony. And with it, for the same money as PT MP, I get an entire suite of high quality video editing tools to boot. Sound Forge 8... $280-! fully ASIO compatable. Okay, so my OO2 is a very expensive sound card, but I can do 5.1 after mixing the basic tracks and effects in PTLE. And my Waves investment works in both systems also.

What will 7.0 bring? I am not sure, but 6.7 didn't offer anything I needed. 6.9 also doesn't look to have added anything besides compatability with other unobtainable Digi products (at least for those of us home musicians/starving artists). 'They' use to say, "you get what you pay for". Now-a-days, "you pay for what you get". Do your shopping homework and you'll find Digi is no longer on the top of the shopping list. If ProTools is only needed for portability (industry standard) you'll be out $500- or so. My first album was done with Nero, Goldwave, and a home made stereo pre-amp All Free!

[DrDVD]

I'd start your Nuendo transition sooner than later (not sure why that's your choice, but to each his own).

Slim, after experimenting with DP and Logic, i found that, as much as both of those programs have going for them, Nuendo seems to rule the roost for surround. For example, there are more (and better-quality, IMHO) surround plug-ins available for Nuendo (e.g. TC SurorundVerb) than for any of the other apps. If not for that, I'd probably be using DP, which has a much more appealing and intuitive interface.

And I appreciate your point about changing the biz plan, but I think that may be a bit extreme; i really don't believe that's what i'm asking. I'm asking only for a few very modest and relatively easy-to-implement upgrades to bring PTLE up to par with the other leading host-based DAW apps and corresponding hardware interfaces in the $1000-$1500 price range. I'm not asking for TDM hardware, which is the major selling point for HD systems. I'm not even asking for unlimited track count (though 48 would really help... sometimes 32 just isn't quite enough). I'm just asking for feature parity with the competition in a few key areas that will allow me to get my work done.

There is one part of this story that I do belive Digi may benefit from hearing, which wouldn't cause them to *rewrite* their business model so much as to *add* a layer to it, and that is a new emerging customer profile. So far, TDM systems have been designed with commercial studios in mind, and PTLE systems have been targeted at home studio hobbyists. I am a part of a third corner of the market triangle that Digi isn't serving well: professionals who earn their living producing high-end audio (much of which is destined for DVD-Audio and SA-CD) in various locations - back and forth between commercial studios with HD and our home studios with PTLE - and i very often schlepp my main gear (PowerBook, interface, and high-end converters, preamps, and mics) around to do location work.

As such, I need a truly high-end product that is small, light and powerful. Think 12" PowerBook (vs. iBook). I am perfectly willing to pay a PowerBook price for this - i'm not asking for consumer pricing. I'm content to pay the "Digi Premium" to be able to use PT on all my projects, everywhere i go. Give me my Digi 003R mobile pro unit (8x 192 AES I/O, 8x +4 analog I/O, with 5.1 support, etc.) and a 5.1-savvy software conterpart and i'd gladly pay $1500, and if they really do it well (all the features i requested, plus higher quality new-generation ADCs so i can actually use the analog inputs now and then), i'd happily pay $2k. Let me link 2 or more units together via FireWire 800 and i'll buy 2 or 3 of 'em at $2k each, which puts me near the price of an HD1 system, but I'm getting a product that suits my needs far better than HD systems do.

In other words, Digi, build me an RME FireFace 800/Mackie Onyx 800R-type interface with 8ch analog and 8ch AES I/O, both at 192k, then bundle it with a 5.1-savvy PTLE and charge me $500 more than the competition does and I'll buy at least one of them in a heartbeat, put my Nuendo on eBay and plant kisses on your feet.

Ok, back to work.

[mersis]

It'll never happen . If that happens they'll lose HD sales which are what 30,000 - 100,000 a pop .

I think Digi "should" think about surround support though for LE . and I think they"should" let LE

Users attain this by buying the Xmon . after all nothings going to get them to upgrade to HD like

letting stick their toes in .

just my opinion though

[Slim Shady]

which are what 30,000 - 100,000

more like $5000 - $20,000. Still pretty expensive though.

[Eric L]

I would gladly pay for surround mixing just as DV Toolkit has been implemented. If they want to protect their HD line, keep active voices low, if they must, but enable the ability to set up multichannel tracks and busses. But really, the host based architecture will limit the system just fine on it's own. Let me have as many tracks as my poor G4 can handle.

I think it is silly to try to compare an 002r with an HD1 system. I will never need an HD system. I'm a sfx sound editor and would love to set up sfx sessions in 5.1 for playback on a larger stage. To think that having this ability would undermine Digi's business model is ridiculous.

I also want to be able to enable automation to all parameters by way of the (command option /) that I can do on TDM systems. There is no longer a need to limit LE by way of software abilities. The hardware is lightyears apart. This should be enough.

Now with the M-Audio line, we have a new bottom rung of users. The LE line should be upgraded to more of an intermediary professional line. I would pay more for the software power.

The new "features" added in the 6.9 update are absolutely of no use to me. Improve digibase, add surround tracks and add the same automation features of TDM and I would gladly pay $1000 more for the software. $1500 if you throw in DV Toolkit. That ends up being what, $2700 for an 002r with surround and timecode. Hell, make it $3000. Still better than buying an HD rig I will never use all the power of. Sounds fair to me. I'm not asking for much. Hell, keep it at 24bit 48k for all I care.

[edytnbch]

All I would want to see is making it where you can expand your system. Like connecting an additional unit for more i/o or some kind of expansion box for more i/o.

[DrDVD]

Thanks for your posts, everyone. I especially agree with EricL about repositioning PTLE as the middle of the line, adding pro features (while letting track count be limited by the CPU, and letting that differentiate LE from HD), and charging a bit more. I'm the same: i would upgrade to HD if it met my needs, but it doesn't; so i'll pay good money but only for a system that meets my needs. I don't need TDM hardware - I need a powerful portable system that will interface with my $30k investment in top-drawer outboard gear and let me mix in 5.1.

And, yes, linking multiple units would be great - *at least* two, for 16-track input - 10 inputs (can't use the ADAT input when recording at 96k) just doesn't cut it when recording full bands at once.

[lastounce]

I just want faster than real time bounces...PLEASE!