How to configure MIDI for auditioning sounds in Reason

[Sunzate]

Hey,

I have a MIDI routing question. I'm wondering if anyone has some suggestions.

Reason and Protools work great together, but there has always been a slight workflow hitch that I can't get my head around. I'm sure it can be done with the proper midi configuration.

It's a bit hard to explain, but I'll try.

I have a 2x2 midisport USB interface, with a single controller connected (it happens to be a Nord Lead 3). Let's say i'm wired to input B on the m-audio box. The keyboard is set as the "master keyboard" in the Reason prefs. I use the same MIDI input to record into Protools.

When I want to record a midi track in Reason, no problem. Let's say I find a drum patch, press record and go. Then I want to record a midi track in Protools, let's say a Native Instruments B4 organ. First I have to disable the "master keyboard" in Reason, otherwise I'll be triggering the drum machine every time I audition the protools organ. So I do that, and record my Protools track.
Now I want to audition some more patches in Reason. I bring up the instrument browser, and of course I hear nothing, because I have disabled the master keyboard. Annoying. I enable the keyboard, and continue on. You can see how this would be frustrating, back and forth all the time.

Basically, I want to be able to do 3 things without having to alter my configuration all the time:
1) record midi into reason, controlling reason devices.
2) record midi into protools, controlling protools devices.
3) record midi into protools, controlling reason devices.
3) audition sounds in both programs, without triggering the other.

How do I set up the two programs and my controller to do this? How do I set up the default channels for this to work every time I make a new session? What are my midi thru settings in Protools? What are my control surface and advance midi preferences in Reason?

Thanks so much for your help.

Cheers
adam

[flommer]

Sounds to me like you are NOT using Reason in Rewire mode. If you were, then all MIDI would go through Protools and you could control what instrument was receiving MIDI by record-enabling/disabling the individual MIDI/inst tracks in ProTools. You wouldn't need to have a master keyboard configured in Reason.. I never do this, but I think you can still record the MIDI inside Reason, as well.

[DigiTechSupt]

Basically, I want to be able to do 3 things without having to alter my configuration all the time:
1) record midi into reason, controlling reason devices.
2) record midi into protools, controlling protools devices.
3) record midi into protools, controlling reason devices.
3) audition sounds in both programs, without triggering the other.

To be able to do all of these is going to require a bit of planning - it can be done, but it's not the most elegant thing to accomplish.

Is there a reason you want to be able to record MIDI in Reason when in ReWire mode, rather than recording it to a track in Pro Tools?

To be able to do all of this the one essential thing to keep in mind is that both Reason and Pro Tools are getting the same MIDI information simultaneously, since you have MIDI input enabled for both programs. When you're working like this, you just have to make sure one or the other program is properly routing it's MIDI input so as not to interfere with the other.

1) If you want to record MIDI in Reason to a Reason device, make sure that no MIDI or Instrument track in Pro Tools is routing MIDI data somewhere it shouldn't, such as into Reason (since you want to record the MIDI directly into Reason).

2) This one is where it may get tricky, as the MIDI data going to Reason has to be sent somewhere it won't cause problems. I would probably create a new instrument in Reason that doesn't have any sounds selected (or the volume is all the way down) and make sure that it's selected when recording in Pro Tools.

3) This is tougher, since you're routing MIDI to both apps and trying to select the same destination (an instrument in Reason). I would probably get around this by allowing the Reason MIDI input to trigger the Reason instrument, but in Pro Tools you'll record the MIDI data, but do not select the Reason instrument for output during record, but rather select a MIDI port/channel that's unused. This way you'll record the MIDI data to the track in Pro Tools, but the MIDI data coming directly into Reason will trigger the Reason instrument for monitoring. After recording, THEN switch the Pro Tools track output to the proper Reason instrument so that it can trigger it for playback.

4) As in the examples above, whenever you want to audition in one application, you just have to make sure you don't have a destination selected in the other application that could trigger a sound in the wrong application.

All of this could be avoided by disabling the master keyboard in Pro Tools and recording MIDI into Pro Tools, rather than into Reason, since doing it that way can trigger instruments in Reason or Pro Tools.

[Sunzate]

Thanks Digi,

I appreciate the long note on this. I'm going to do some more experiments, keeping your suggestions in mind.

I also know that the best solution would be to have a second keyboard; one for reason, one for Protools!

Originally Posted by DigiTechSupt

Is there a reason you want to be able to record MIDI in Reason when in ReWire mode, rather than recording it to a track in Pro Tools?

e.g, it's much easier to automate reason devices in Reason than it is in protools.
Also, I need to be able to audition sounds in the Reason browser, and with the master keyboard disabled, you can't do that, as far as i know.

Originally Posted by flommer

Sounds to me like you are NOT using Reason in Rewire mode. If you were, then all MIDI would go through Protools and you could control what instrument was receiving MIDI by record-enabling/disabling the individual MIDI/inst tracks in ProTools. You wouldn't need to have a master keyboard configured in Reason.. I never do this, but I think you can still record the MIDI inside Reason, as well.

I'm definitely in rewire mode - the midi data passes from protools to Reason no problem. Audio goes from Reason to Protools. I've been doing it for years.
It's just a matter of finding a good workflow, where I'm not always reaching for a preferences pane when I switch programs. If you can tell me how I can audition sounds in Reason, with the Master keyboard disabled, I would be very grateful.

Cheers
Adan

[flommer]

I'm not familiar with the Nord, but it does seem to have zones or splits. If you are already using them for performance reasons, then this won't work..

But if you are currently not using that feature, then assign 1 MIDI channel to zone 1 and a different one to zone 2. All your ProTools inputs use zone 1, reason zone 2, and to switch all it requires is a button or 2 on the Nord..

Note that I'm extrapolating from what my studiologic controller can do, so I'm not sure about the Nord.. Plus, this could have some other workflow problems depending on how you use your MIDI channels..

Could this work for you?

[Sunzate]

That could work. Channel 1 protools, channel 2 reason. That would be ideal. I'll give it a whirl.

Thanks!
A

[Sunzate]

Hey,

So I may have McGyver'd a setup that is perfect. It doesn't involve any channel routing, rather, use of the midi thru option in Protools, and an extra midi cable.

-I connected my midi keyboard to input B on the 2x2 midi interface.
-I set the midi thru option in Protools preferences to route midi to the physical output A of the midi interface.
-I set the master keyboard in Reason to input A of the midi interface.
-I then I took a short midi cable cable and connected output A straight to input B. Seems a bit counterintuitive, but it works!

I didn't know this, but when you arm a midi track in protools, there is no midi thru. Only when there are no tracks armed does the midi go to the alternate output you selected in preferences.

That means when I unarm the track in protools, the midi goes to Reason only. I see 3 lights blinking (In A, Out A, and In B). When I arm the track in Protools, the midi goes to Protools only. Only one light blinks (In B).

I'm pretty excited! I have been trying to figure this out for years!

[Sunzate]

OH yeah, and to prevent a midi feedback loop, make sure you only select one of the inputs under setup>midi>input devices.