Focusrite 16line

[JamesG602]

Hello,

Have the option of picking up a Focusrite 16line for a good price. Had a few questions.

Compared to the avid HD I/O how does the unit sound? Converters good?

I know the Focusrite isn’t sample accurate in HDX, which shouldn’t be an issue as I don’t run any hardware inserts. Outside of the HW inserts everything else should work as expected with HDX correct? I still get the same old low latency tracking without thinking about it?

Anything else I should know?

Thanks!

[its2loud]

Focusrite Red hardware is some of the best in the industry. It’s already better than what you currently have in your setup.

Did you read the specs on their website?

https://us.focusrite.com/products/red-16line

Low latency performance is through the HDX card, not the interface, unless your using it via Thunderbolt or Dante.

[Darryl Ramm]

You get the same I/O buffer free low latency tracking with HDX. But there are always fine details in the uh fine details...

Not being sample accurate in emulation also implies that input latency may be different. I don't have any numbers, hopefully Focusrite do. (If you have a HD I/O you can measure the input and/or output latency difference). Which can mean slight misalignment on inputs. etc. So watch out for say drum kit mics spanning these and a say HD I/O interface, especially say getting phase/time aliments set up for mics and then switching a mic between this and a HD I/O. Folks wanting to use outboard mix bus hardware and are sensitive to phase issues, may not want to mix interfaces going to/from a mix bus.

[JamesG602]

Thanks.

How do they hold up against an he I/O sound wise?

What about a MTRX studio?

[Darryl Ramm]

Ah and full circle to the MTRX Studio, I assume Avid/NTP pretty much cribbed there from the Focusrite 16line brochure

Never listened to this gear side by side.

But what are you doing? Trying to replace?

My bias here would be towards the NTP/Avid product unless you were using other RedNet gear. Nothing to do with audio quality or latency accuracy, much more about getting help on DUC with DADman, firmware etc. all these are quite complex boxes.

[JamesG602]

Yup… haha

Looking to replace/consolidate some aging and problematic HD I/Os.

I really only need 16 analog in and out so this or the Mtrx studio would suite me for the consolidation part. I do like the Focusrite has AES.

Running an HDX card with this, but also want the ability to run native via thunderbolt. I often switch between protools, logic, and studio one depending on what I get sent.

I was really set on a Mtrx studio but the DADman setup and software looks like hell and I understand it’s impressive flexibility, but for my needs, the complexity is more of a hindrance as I won’t be needing all that it can potentially do.

[nst7]

I have the Red 16 Line, and I love it. And I've compared it against the devices you mentioned, so I'll put in my two cents, and roughly explain how it works.

I had the Omni with HD Native for many years, and really liked it. I wanted to update, and get into HDX as well.

First I tried the Carbon. Functionality was great, but I didn't like the sound of it.

I then tried the MTRX Studio. Besides the complexity of the software (which you mentioned), I also didn't care for the sound (though it was better than the Carbon).

Finally settled on the 16 Line. Sound quality is excellent. Everything I liked about the Omni/HD IO sound, but noticeably better. The built in headphone amps are fantastic as well.

It works great hooked up to the HDX card, and great in regular thunderbolt mode. In thunderbolt mode, it is very low latency, better than what I had with HD Native and Omni, at the same buffer setting. This makes it the best of both worlds. Thunderbolt mode for virtual instruments, and non-DSP amp sims (which is most of them), and HDX mode for more serious tracking, etc. Though you could also track in thunderbolt mode as well, if you manage your session well. Honestly the latency in that mode, on a buffer of 64 or 32 is so low that it's very close to what you get with the HDX card.

You would also want to use it in Thunderbolt mode with other DAW's as well, as they obviously would not get any benefits from the HDX card.

Note that you can only use these modes one at a time. In HDX mode (called Protools mode in the software), it basically reboots itself. You can't have certain channels in HDX mode and certain channels in thunderbolt mode at the same time. Shouldn't be an issue.

You can still have the thunderbolt cable hooked up to your computer though, even in HDX mode. This gives you access to their Rednet Control software, which is way more intuitive and easier to use than DADMAN. From there, you can change configurations, calibrations, route things, and remote control the 2 built in preamps, which are very good and similar to the clean-but-not sterile sound of the Omni preamps.

Note that you do not need to have the Rednet Control software running to use the unit in any mode, once you have it set up how you like. You would only need to have it running if you want to remote control the preamps, headphone volumes, and other functions from the computer rather than on the unit itself.

In HDX mode it will show up as 4 HDIO Digitals (with both Digilink ports connected). I'm pretty sure if you wanted to only use the first 32 inputs on the unit, and use the other Digilink port of your HDX card for another Digilink interface, you can do that. Otherwise you would have both ports connected, taking advantage of 64 inputs/outputs, including Dante.

It can also be put into a standalone converter mode, if you route it a certain way in the Rednet software.

Lastly, build quality is excellent, like a tank.


Having said all this, since we are only a week and half away from the NAMM show, you should hold off on any major purchases. I have not heard anything about new updated versions of this, but just in case.

[JamesG602]

Originally Posted by nst7

I have the Red 16 Line, and I love it. And I've compared it against the devices you mentioned, so I'll put in my two cents, and roughly explain how it works.

I had the Omni with HD Native for many years, and really liked it. I wanted to update, and get into HDX as well.

First I tried the Carbon. Functionality was great, but I didn't like the sound of it.

I then tried the MTRX Studio. Besides the complexity of the software (which you mentioned), I also didn't care for the sound (though it was better than the Carbon).

Finally settled on the 16 Line. Sound quality is excellent. Everything I liked about the Omni/HD IO sound, but noticeably better. The built in headphone amps are fantastic as well.

It works great hooked up to the HDX card, and great in regular thunderbolt mode. In thunderbolt mode, it is very low latency, better than what I had with HD Native and Omni, at the same buffer setting. This makes it the best of both worlds. Thunderbolt mode for virtual instruments, and non-DSP amp sims (which is most of them), and HDX mode for more serious tracking, etc. Though you could also track in thunderbolt mode as well, if you manage your session well. Honestly the latency in that mode, on a buffer of 64 or 32 is so low that it's very close to what you get with the HDX card.

You would also want to use it in Thunderbolt mode with other DAW's as well, as they obviously would not get any benefits from the HDX card.

Note that you can only use these modes one at a time. In HDX mode (called Protools mode in the software), it basically reboots itself. You can't have certain channels in HDX mode and certain channels in thunderbolt mode at the same time. Shouldn't be an issue.

You can still have the thunderbolt cable hooked up to your computer though, even in HDX mode. This gives you access to their Rednet Control software, which is way more intuitive and easier to use than DADMAN. From there, you can change configurations, calibrations, route things, and remote control the 2 built in preamps, which are very good and similar to the clean-but-not sterile sound of the Omni preamps.

Note that you do not need to have the Rednet Control software running to use the unit in any mode, once you have it set up how you like. You would only need to have it running if you want to remote control the preamps, headphone volumes, and other functions from the computer rather than on the unit itself.

In HDX mode it will show up as 4 HDIO Digitals (with both Digilink ports connected). I'm pretty sure if you wanted to only use the first 32 inputs on the unit, and use the other Digilink port of your HDX card for another Digilink interface, you can do that. Otherwise you would have both ports connected, taking advantage of 64 inputs/outputs, including Dante.

It can also be put into a standalone converter mode, if you route it a certain way in the Rednet software.

Lastly, build quality is excellent, like a tank.


Having said all this, since we are only a week and half away from the NAMM show, you should hold off on any major purchases. I have not heard anything about new updated versions of this, but just in case.

Well that was a huge push in the direction of Focusrite. What I already knew/imagined you solidified. Thank you!

I’m honestly surprised you feel the Focusrite sounds better than the Mtrx Studio. I would have bet sonically that would have the edge!

[uptheoctave]

I had the Red 16 Line for several years and wrote a bunch of articles about it.
It is a great unit if you don't need sample accuracy for hardware inserts and will never need more than 64 channels. Dante is capped at 32 channels.
They sound very good indeed and Focusrite's driver support is good too.
The only reason I upgraded to the MTRX/DAD universe was to increase my number of channels and to use analogue hardware on inserts.

I would consider the MTRX Studio though and see if you need the extra capabilities/potential channel count.

One thing with the Red 16 Line- you cannot use Thunderbolt and HDX at the same time.
With the MTRX family you can.
This can be a double edged sword if you like working in different samples rates.

[LDS]

The bells and whistles of the MTRX Studio are totally worth it if you ask me. Neither device you have mentioned is much like the Avid HD stuff. Both require an additional software application. Both software applications have a learning curve and some strange quirks. While DADman is more complex due to the added flexibility, that flexibility makes it totally set-and-forget once you have everything configured to the way you like it.

HDX and Thunderbolt not working simultaneously in the Focusrite stuff, with the hardware needing to reset between switching modes is a real kill-joy.