002 loses warmth

[the_dr38]

Does anyone else have a similar problem to this? I am using a Mackie 1604 VLZ pro for the pre-amps which I'm then sending out of group 1 (1/4 inch jack) into the 002 line in. When monitoring through the mackie desk the vocals sound warm and rich but as soon as it gets into the 002 although it still sounds clear, it has lost the warmth and sounds a bit duller. The levels are fine and i am using high quality leads. The mics are also great foir vocals, a Rode NT-K and a Neumann TLM 103. Anyone else ever experience this?

L.Dudley

[audioboffin]

I've found that I MUCH prefer the sound of the 002 when it resolves to an external clock. Getting very good results from just about any TC Electronics unit with SPDIF output. Seems to sound "airier" smoother and generally less "cardboardy". See if you have a friend with say a Finalizer that you can test with, and let us know what you think.

Also make sure that you are using balanced cables out of the Mackie and into the 002's line inputs.

[the_dr38]

Unfortunately I dont have anyone with a TC unit. I am using balanced cables but still seems strange to me, i mean its as if the 002 is actually masking the signal.

[audioboffin]

Plenty to speculate on, but without actually hearing what you are commenting on it's hard to guess. I've heard some good recordings made with just the 002 as front end. Having said that, an external clock does make a significant difference to most converters.

[Naagzh]

Does anyone else have a similar problem to this? I am using a Mackie 1604 VLZ pro for the pre-amps which I'm then sending out of group 1 (1/4 inch jack) into the 002 line in. When monitoring through the mackie desk the vocals sound warm and rich but as soon as it gets into the 002 although it still sounds clear, it has lost the warmth and sounds a bit duller. The levels are fine and i am using high quality leads. The mics are also great foir vocals, a Rode NT-K and a Neumann TLM 103. Anyone else ever experience this?

L.Dudley

Once recorded, are you listening through the same equipment as you had while monitoring from the Mackie? Perhaps your monitors or room is misrepresenting the bass.

Are you going into one of the line inputs on the 002 (#5 through #8, not 1-4)? Although you can select "line" on inputs 1-4, the gain knob still controls the input signal level (at least on mine it does), which leads me to believe that somehow the line input path still involves the mic pre, and may compromise the signal.

Also, could you be monitoring pre-fader on the Mackie desk? If so, and you like this sound, then you need to get the signal into the 002 BEFORE it hits the fader, EQ, and other internal routings within the Mackie board. IOW, ensure that the signal hits the Mackie preamp, and is sent immediately to the 002. I think you can get a pre-fader signal from that channel on the Mackie by plugging a quarter inch cable one "click" (halfway) into the insert jack near the top of the channel (this uses the insert jack as a pre-fader direct out). Check your manual for specifics, and keep the cable length as short as possible.

[the_dr38]

This comment is based uon listening through good quality headphones, post fader on the desk and a signal sent through a good quality lead (Not sure if balanced but shouldnt make that much difference. However I am using line inputs 1 or 2 on the 002, yes the gaindoes sitll play a role but come on surely DIGI wouldnt compromise quality between line ins...........WOULD THEY?

This is less noticable through my monitors however it's still present. It just seems to be the simple answer....The mackie sounds better than the DIGI. Analaogue tape machine, where are you? hehe just joking,


L.Dudley

[Aussie169]

The 002 converters are certainly not the best, but put a quality signal through them and they do quite fine.

Your problem is that the Mackie VLZ is NOT putting out a quality signal. Sorry, but the VLZs suck ass bigtime. Not much better than Behringer IMHO.
A friend of mine used to swear by his VLZ, so I took my Buzz Audio preamp in for him to do an AB. Whilst the Buzz sounded big warm and open, the Mackie in comparison sounded thin, harsh and nasally. He was quite blown away, and the Mackie was on Ebay the next day. And he was using an RME card as his interface, which IMHO has better converters than the 002.

So before you call the 002 your weak link, try out a quality preamp and see for yourself.

[Aussie169]

Something else I just thought of.

Are you the vocalist? Are you monitoring yourself?
If so, when you hear yourself through the Mackie, or even through the 002 at the tracking stage, either singing or talking, you will also be hearing your head voice. ie your voice reverberating acoustically through your skull. This obviously adds much depth and warmth to the sound you are hearing.
But when you listen back, you don't get that.

[the_dr38]

To be honest I don't agree with you here, not to start a war. The Mackie is putting a great signal out. I have checked through headphones, plus I have routed the signal direct to the monitors from the Mackie and it still sounds just as good. It's irrelevant to bring something like a Buzz Audio pre-amp into the equation just to prove how bad the Mackie is next to it when all I am trying to do is get to the bottom of why a sound I like turns into a sound I like not so much when simply fed into the 002.

This is when used against a vocalist, not myself (God that woul dbe no comparisoin at all)

L.Dudley

[the_dr38]

To be honest I don't agree with you here, not to start a war. The Mackie is putting a great signal out. I have checked through headphones, plus I have routed the signal direct to the monitors from the Mackie and it still sounds just as good, it's only when coming out of the 002 that there's a difference. It's irrelevant to bring something like a Buzz Audio pre-amp into the equation just to prove how bad the Mackie is next to it when all I am trying to do is get to the bottom of why a sound I like turns into a sound I like not so much when simply fed into the 002.

This is when used against a vocalist, not myself (God that would be no use at all)

L.Dudley