Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Software > Tips & Tricks

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-25-2003, 08:41 AM
D Clarkson D Clarkson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 158
Default Drum overhead-problems

I have a problem with low ceilings when it comes to recording drums;the cymbals sound so trashy,and it seems that everything on the overheads is boosted at 2/2.5 Khz.
Normally I don't have that problem when I'm recording in a room with a ceiling that's 20 ft. high.But the room I'm recording now is just above 7 ft.
Can anyone help me out?
[img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-25-2003, 08:50 AM
Mike Tholen Mike Tholen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Chicago
Posts: 329
Default Re: Drum overhead-problems

I would toss a couple of ribboons on the kit and see what happens.
Beyer 260's are nice sounding and cheap.
Coles 4038's are quite a bit thicker sounding and are still relatively cheap.

what mics are you using?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-25-2003, 08:51 AM
bassmac bassmac is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,754
Default Re: Drum overhead-problems

I've got 7' ceilings too. I put the mic's behind the kit instead, sounds great. Also, using cymbals that don't sound harsh themself should be the first step - usually the thinner ones.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-25-2003, 09:44 AM
Chris Coleman Chris Coleman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,656
Default Re: Drum overhead-problems

You may also want to try a couple PZM mics on the ceiling...worth a shot.
__________________
It's not rocket surgery
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-25-2003, 04:10 PM
AE AE is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 467
Default Re: Drum overhead-problems

Is the room fairly live? Strong reflections, perhaps from the ceiling, may have a high enough level relative to the direct pick-up to produce phase cancellation. If so, deaden the offending surfaces or move the mics closer. Also, if you have strong reflections, you may have coloration due to the less-than-ideal off-axis frequency response of your directional mics. This can be fixed by using omnis, but you'll also get more of the room which I'm guessing will not be desirable.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-25-2003, 06:52 PM
centerstage centerstage is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Schenectady, New York,USA
Posts: 78
Default Re: Drum overhead-problems

Try micing the cymbals off axis. Don't point the mic directly at them. Point them so they catch the cymbals. Make sure there are dead surfaces in the direction the mic is pointed. I've tried to get good sounds from all types of pres...api, neve, daking, avalon...etc...it's hard with low ceilings. Better when the drummer has the kit lower and doen't hit to hard. You might want to put pads on the mics or in the case of the 414's put them on. That can overload and sound like **** . Best of luck.
Tim
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-26-2003, 01:21 AM
D Clarkson D Clarkson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 158
Default Re: Drum overhead-problems

Thanx for the replies!
The crashes that I use are 2 K-Zildjians and 1 A-Custom.
I've been experimenting with AKG-C451,and 414.
What's the difference in placing the mics overhead or behind the kit?
I usually place them overhead,but then I get that harsh sound,cuz there's a low ceiling.
I guess if I place them behind the kit,the mics pick up the sound from the entire kit,don't they?
What I also would like to try is to place 2 condensers in front of the kit,about 10-12 feet away to record the "room" and then use Altiverb to make the room sound bigger,however if I place 2 mics in front of the kit,and 2 mics behind the kit,don't they jump out of phase then?

Please advise!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-28-2003, 02:55 PM
O.G. Killa's Avatar
O.G. Killa O.G. Killa is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,152
Default Re: Drum overhead-problems

Have you tried treating the room yet? Look around for "Do It Yourself" types of webpages for acoustic treatment.

One thing I would try is to take a thick blanket or tapestry and hang it above the drumset. Tack it into the ceiling so that it's centered over the cymbals and let it drape down a little bit. It would have a convex curve off the ceiling. Kinda like this (side view)

\__/

but obviously more rounded. Leave the sides open (attach the top and bottom sides to the ceiling leave the left and right sides open. If the tacks/nails are strong enough, you can try to fill it with some sort of light material (fiberglass, sponge, foam, etc). Try Adjusting the amount of draping it has (a couple inches off the ceiling to a foot or two off the ceiling at the lowest point). See what sounds best in the mics.

Theoretically speaking, the wavelength for a sound at 2KHz~2.5KHz is around 4.5~5.5 inches. So you should have the tapestry drape at least 5 or 6 inches off the ceiling to catch sound at 2KHz and up.


Hope this helps a little.
__________________
Derek Jones
Sound Engineer / Producer / Composer

Derek Jones Linkedin
Megatrax Recording Studios
Megatrax Studios Yelp Page
A-list Music Artist Page
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-29-2003, 07:24 AM
D Clarkson D Clarkson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 158
Default Re: Drum overhead-problems

Thanx for all the tips!
I just found a site/company called Auralex.
I guess they can help me out;all I have to do is to make a "floorplan" of my room,what materials are on the floor,walls ceiling,etc,and what kind of frequencies are disturbing,like too boomy,or flutternoise.Then they will give me advise on how I can absorb,diffuse,or use basstraps,etc!

Great site! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-03-2003, 05:55 PM
Guy McDude Guy McDude is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: US
Posts: 301
Default Re: Drum overhead-problems

Quote:
Originally posted by D Clarkson:
I have a problem with low ceilings when it comes to recording drums;the cymbals sound so trashy,and it seems that everything on the overheads is boosted at 2/2.5 Khz.
Normally I don't have that problem when I'm recording in a room with a ceiling that's 20 ft. high.But the room I'm recording now is just above 7 ft.
Can anyone help me out?
[img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would get some diffusion on the ceiling above the kit.

take care
__________________
Best,
Sean

Sean McDonald
Red Medicine Recording LLC
Sofa King Music Services
http://www.seanmcdonald.com
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Drum Overhead Mics firsty33 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 4 12-03-2011 02:19 AM
Drum overhead suggestion WRX07 General Discussion 8 03-14-2005 08:52 PM
drum overhead question mbuono Tips & Tricks 8 02-18-2004 11:54 AM
drum overhead question mbuono 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 5 11-28-2003 11:00 AM
Drum OverHead Tips Kipsey Tips & Tricks 4 03-07-2003 10:29 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:25 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com