Master fader request

[Shawn Simpson]

I don't know the specifics of it, but I was told (after making that exact request 7 years ago) that the configuration of the master fader is not only for dithering purposes, but to prevent it from using additional DSP when no inserts are present.

[JFreak]

Come on guys, let's get back to TDM 101 and understand what Master Faders are all about: they are Mixer Output Points, they're always there and they are available for controlling output level. The fact that one can insert plugs into one is a plus, do not get confused, understand what it is and use it accordingly.

Think of analog mixer master channel. There's a fader for the master track, and there's a Master Out which you connect to amps. If you insert some processing to master channel, it will be post fader and pre amplifier. ProTools Master Fader is just that, a MASTER track: POST fader, PRE amps.

If you want to process something pre-fader, you do NOT want to process it in the master track. Period. Given the analog mixer example; you want to process in an audio GROUP, which in ProTools you would get using an AUX track. IOW, route your master mix to AUX and then process however you want, then route that processed stuff to your Master Fader.

Learn basics first, then whine.

[crizdee]

Originally Posted by Howardk

Yea this has always bugged me as well, especially when mastering or automation on a master that has compression. . . I also think it would be better to have the fader after the inserts. Not sure why it is different on masters. . . Sure, I know all the work arounds (Typically I insert another plugin after the compression and automate volumes/fades that way) but it is just not right the way it is as it is a strange inconsistency.

Hi,

Master faders are exactly right as they! if you want processing on your overall mix you should be using an aux/mix bus.

They do exactly the same thing except one is pre and one is post.

The master fader has inserts but primarily not for processing but for metering and dithering. As i route my itunes directly into PT i don't want anything on the master fader! just metering to compare with what i'm mixing or mastering.

Chris

[DigiTechSupt]

Originally Posted by Shawn Simpson

The point is that if you make the inserts on a master fader pre-fader, then you would essentially have the exact same thing as an aux track.

Exactly what I meant. Sorry for the confusion - sometimes translation between head and fingers doesn't quite make it through...!

[Howardk]

Originally Posted by crizdee

Hi,

Master faders are exactly right as they! if you want processing on your overall mix you should be using an aux/mix bus.

They do exactly the same thing except one is pre and one is post.

The master fader has inserts but primarily not for processing but for metering and dithering. As i route my itunes directly into PT i don't want anything on the master fader! just metering to compare with what i'm mixing or mastering.

Chris

Auxes and Master faders are different in a lot of other ways as well. . . Although I see your point, I think it is confusing and could be better. . . ie. more flexible and more intuitive as well. . .

[Andre Knecht]

Originally Posted by crizdee

[…] Master faders are exactly right…

Indeed they are! Time to dust off old faithful…


[Copied and edited from an earlier post]

Master Faders — the most widely misunderstood feature in ProTools.

A Master Fader does NOT control an Output, but, rather, the Input of a logical address (a path) in the PT mixer. It’s a subtle but fundamental difference. Think of a Master Fader as an attenuator placed at the input of any mixer component and you’re on the right (ahem) track.

A Master Fader does NOT govern the routing of signals because it is placed at the input of a (any) stage within the PT mixer. The routing of signals is determined by the output selector found on each PT channel (“track,” in ProTools-speak). The Output selector is the equivalent to an analog console’s buss selector (typically found at the top of a strip). A Master Fader is the equivalent to the Trim pot for a line input channel on an analog console (i.e. a return from the multi-track recorder).
For each and every channel (PT “track”), be it Audio or AUX, the user determines its destination(s). That’s where the routing occurs. A master Fader only controls the summed level of these routing decisions.

These “Master Faders” — these attenuators — are always present with their gain set to 0 dB (i.e. no attenuation) whenever one instantiates any routing. The act of adding a Master Fader to a session, is to make the attenuator visible, so its value can be changed.

This seems like a good spot/time to pause and [again] stipulate that the PT documentation could be a wee bit (cough) more detailed about all this. Having said that, fundamentally this isn’t any different from what one finds on an analog console. It’s just a matter of how much is made available to the operator, and how. Over the years, commonly needed and used paths in hardware consoles have been made available via “normalled” and dedicated paths — convenience vs. versatility. Within ProTools, these “standard” paths are also available — they just need to be “created” from scratch.

[End of earlier post]

IHTH

[Howardk]

Originally Posted by Andre Knecht

Having said that, fundamentally this isn’t any different from what one finds on an analog console.

Great that you pulled out the User Guide text.

The difference is that most analog consoles have the insert point pre-fader, so compression inserts pre-fader. . . however most of my console experience is with live/touring consoles, maybe it is different in the studio/post world. . . so, regardless of what the good book says, I find it counter intuitive at present. This did catch me off guard a years ago and sure I use Auxes, so it is not a problem. . . but more of an observation.

I can see the advantage, as metering can be post fader with a master fader, which is not possible on other track types unfortunetly. . . Split points between the inserts (between pre/post) would allow users to insert preferred post fader metering on any track (audio, aux, instrument or master). . . just a thought/idea that would stream line setup. . .

[guitar486]

Why are we still posting here?

[Howardk]

Originally Posted by guitar486

Why are we still posting here?

Because of interest in other peoples experience and the exchange of ideas and alternate viewpoints.