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  #1  
Old 02-28-2011, 09:07 AM
garret garret is offline
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Default Delivering a -24 drama mix

Hey
We are mixing a drama series in 5.1 that requires the new itu1770 spec with dial intelligence on at -24 plus or minus 1. So in theory we can deliver a -25 and be within spec. Problem is this show needs some dynamic range for loud sequences but in order to try to get the dial anywhere near spec we need to reduce our monitoring level so our loud sections are starting to lack impact as we are beginning to compress a fair amount as we hit the -2dBfs ceiling. It's frustrating as we have the voice sample but it bears nothing in common with on set dial delivered by actors who are whispering half the time! We have managed a -26 so far and are fairly happy with that but it's gonna be a struggle to get a -25 as we have already pushed the dial fairly hard. Is anyone else feeling this struggle? As I mentioned it's really because we need to keep some dynamic range for action sequences; it would be much easier if this was a pure talky show.

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Garret
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Old 02-28-2011, 09:57 AM
Brandonx1 Brandonx1 is offline
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Default Re: Delivering a -24 drama mix

Yes, I always thought the discovery spec of -27 was the sweet spot where monitoring at 79dB felt right. The one thing you might not be thinking of is that people at home are not listening to your program on a dub stage and their noise floor is much much higher than a dub stage. So whispering can get lost in a living room listening environment if it is not turned up.
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Old 02-28-2011, 12:37 PM
mikevarela mikevarela is offline
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Default Re: Delivering a -24 drama mix

watch that spec and make sure you're allowed to hit the -2 mark, sometimes they have you limit to -10 or -8 dbfs and then yes, the mix ca get really loud...

are you properly monitoring too? 79dbslp or around there?
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Old 02-28-2011, 12:51 PM
garret garret is offline
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Default Re: Delivering a -24 drama mix

Yeah we are at 80 at the moment trying to keep some dynamic range while also trying to hit the spec. Yeah thankfully we have a -2dbfs for both the 6 track and 2 track so at least the 2 track isn't going to be limited to death! Brandon Yes I also delivered to discovery previously and thought that the -27 was a really nice spec for tv. Its just when it comes to this spec getting quietly delivered dialogue all the way up to -24 really brings a lot of gunk with it!

Thanks
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Old 02-28-2011, 01:45 PM
ILOVEPROTOOLS ILOVEPROTOOLS is offline
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Default Re: Delivering a -24 drama mix

Quote:
Originally Posted by garret View Post
Yeah we are at 80 at the moment trying to keep some dynamic range while also trying to hit the spec. Yeah thankfully we have a -2dbfs for both the 6 track and 2 track so at least the 2 track isn't going to be limited to death! Brandon Yes I also delivered to discovery previously and thought that the -27 was a really nice spec for tv. Its just when it comes to this spec getting quietly delivered dialogue all the way up to -24 really brings a lot of gunk with it!

Thanks
this is one of those situations where your hands are tied. They gave you a spec, they gave you dirty dx, and now you have to make magic. Another lovely day in post ...as far as the whispering goes, i suggest (Izotope denoiser, Waves de Crackle, WNS Noise suppression or Cedar, then eq) in that order on every whispery bite. which i'm sure youve already done, but with that chain i can usually polish up a bite quite nicely.
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Old 03-01-2011, 02:46 AM
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nucelar nucelar is offline
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Default Re: Delivering a -24 drama mix

This seems strange. ITU-R BS.1770 explicitly states that the measurement be taken on the whole mix. -24 LKFS is more than reasonable for accomodating a big dynamic range then.
Dialogue intelligence is a propietary algo by dolby, that has been superseeded by the BS.1770 open standard. It is contradictory to have a spec say -24 LKFS on dialogue only, because it does not conform to BS.1770.
If it's the first time you (or the client) are faced with this spec, I would double check with them, maybe there's a misunderstanding
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Old 03-01-2011, 06:36 AM
garret garret is offline
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Default Re: Delivering a -24 drama mix

Nuclear
I understand the new spec and agree totally with you that it should not include dial intelligence however this is the spec requirement and is stated clearly. This is for a major network in the U.S so I very much doubt the spec is incorrect.

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Old 03-01-2011, 06:53 AM
tom_lowe tom_lowe is offline
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Default Re: Delivering a -24 drama mix

Dialogue intelligence isn't stated in EBU R.128 and the US equivalent, (A/85?) however, lots of broadcasters still want Dialogue intelligence on to be able to get an accurate DialNorm figure.

In the UK, using dialogue intelligence has never been part of specs, and now we're going over to loudness, it's measured for the whole programme.

Dolby Media Meter and the new LM100 firmware can give a figure for Dialogue intelligence, but measured in LKFS not just the original Leq(A) figure. No other loudness meters offer a Dialogue Intelligence mode as it is not part of most loudness specs.

I'm guessing broadcasters who used to ask for an Leq(A) Dialogue level have kept that spec, but are now asking for it to be measured in LKFS instead.
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:37 AM
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nucelar nucelar is offline
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Default Re: Delivering a -24 drama mix

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Originally Posted by tom_lowe View Post
Dialogue intelligence isn't stated in EBU R.128 and the US equivalent, (A/85?) however, lots of broadcasters still want Dialogue intelligence on to be able to get an accurate DialNorm figure.

I'm guessing broadcasters who used to ask for an Leq(A) Dialogue level have kept that spec, but are now asking for it to be measured in LKFS instead.
Well, only thing I can say is that if this spec was given to you to comply with the CALM act, then it's plain wrong.
AFAIK you can measure dialnorm and include it in your metadata (and possibly adhere to a network spec) as long as the programme loudness is measured with a BS.1770 meter and THIS value should meet the common target level of -24 LKFS. Otherwise you could potentially have an ad blasting music at full scale with only one sentence which has indeed a dianorm of -24.

Dolby has great interest (obviously) in maintaining the "anchor element = dialog" paradigm, but ITU (A/85) and EBU (R128) have agreed to choose a more sensible way to measure loudness, and possibly these two will converge to onne universal standard in the near future.
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:49 AM
garret garret is offline
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Default Re: Delivering a -24 drama mix

Plain wrong or not; that is the spec
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