Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Software > Tips & Tricks

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #21  
Old 03-16-2015, 06:43 AM
Chief Technician Chief Technician is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 6,981
Post Re: Metering Classic vs Sample Peak

Quote:
Originally Posted by bryced87 View Post
Wait. So I can record in the yellow or I can't?
It depends.

If you are not clipping at any point in your analog signal chain prior to your A/D converter, and your input signal happens to be in the yellow, then yes, you can record in the yellow.

If you are clipping at any point in your analog signal chain prior to your A/D converter, and correcting that situation means you are no longer in the yellow, then no, you cannot record in the yellow.
__________________
Jonathan S. Abrams, CEA, CEV, CBNT
Apple Certified - Technical Coordinator (v10.5), Support Professional (v10.6 through v10.10)
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-16-2015, 10:24 AM
Park Seward's Avatar
Park Seward Park Seward is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Grants Pass, OR
Posts: 4,284
Default Re: Metering Classic vs Sample Peak

Kenny has made a great tutorial on recording levels:

http://www.kennymania.com/recording-...-in-pro-tools/

It should answer many questions about setting the proper levels.

That is where I got the -18 db.
__________________
Park
The Transfer Lab at Video Park
Analog tape to Pro Tools transfers, 1/4"-2"
http://www.videopark.com
MacPro 6 core 3.33 GHz, OS 10.12.1, 8 GB RAM, PT12.6.1, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, PreSonus DigiMax, MC Control V3.5, dual displays,
Neumann U-47, Tab V76 mic pre, RCA 44BX and 77DX, MacBook Pro 9,1, 2.3 Mhz, i7, CBS Labs Audimax and Volumax.
Ampex 440B half-track and four-track, 351 tube full-track mono, MM-1100 16-track.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-16-2015, 10:46 AM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 19,515
Default Re: Metering Classic vs Sample Peak

Sorry but that tutorial just utterly sucks. It will add to already lost users inherent confusion, and especially badly he just conflates analog signal levels in dB-something with digital dBFS. And never explains either. If a user is not clear on the difference and what is/could be happening on the analog side vs digital clipping at the converter then they really have no chance.

And leave the damn meters in Pro Tools alone, if somebody made offsets like that (not related to precise analog calibration) to my setup they would have their fingers removed.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-16-2015, 11:14 AM
Park Seward's Avatar
Park Seward Park Seward is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Grants Pass, OR
Posts: 4,284
Default Re: Metering Classic vs Sample Peak

Not all agree.

"The ability to recalibrate the meters reference level, and the colour bands may finally make Pro Tools meters worth taking notice of during recording - I think a lot of people just tend make sure the meter stays mostly in the green zone, and that they don't get too many peaks above about -9dBfs." -Carl Kolchak

"Big Thanks for that Video as it was cool to see how other members think and use the input levels in PT. " -Southsidemusic

"Thanks for that, Kenny. I found it very enlightening. Didn't know analog's optimum level is -18dB. I've seen guys drive levels too hot into Pro Tools quite often, which isn't even necessary with 24bit recording. The default meter setup encourages people to crank it."

"Going to set my meters this way, it really should become the new standard." -WreckSpocka

"Yes! Yellow is the new red. Converters have about 120dB dynamics and 24bit file has 144dB so in theory we are not losing anything if we record -24dBFS and I'm talking about PEAKS here." -JFreak

"As I said, I record at these conservative levels as a matter of course (used to be hotter when 16bit was the only real option, but there was usually some hardware compression in the chain too), but you demonstrating that PT11 has the ability to recalibrate the metering is a really useful tip, and finally makes PT meters worth looking at on the way in, beyond just the peaks.

Thanks for bringing that to my attention." -Carl Kolchak

"Thanks for that great video Kenny! It was very clear and really helped me understand digital levels! Im a huge fan of all your videos and the reason i maintain a membership with groove3. Your a huge asset to the audio industry." -grant howarth

"Bottom line, I reckon you are right about the levels issue and I recommend others give it a go. Once you get over the small waveforms thing, it'll be hard to go back. Your recordings will thank you.

Big thanks to Kenny." -quantise

To each his own.
__________________
Park
The Transfer Lab at Video Park
Analog tape to Pro Tools transfers, 1/4"-2"
http://www.videopark.com
MacPro 6 core 3.33 GHz, OS 10.12.1, 8 GB RAM, PT12.6.1, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, PreSonus DigiMax, MC Control V3.5, dual displays,
Neumann U-47, Tab V76 mic pre, RCA 44BX and 77DX, MacBook Pro 9,1, 2.3 Mhz, i7, CBS Labs Audimax and Volumax.
Ampex 440B half-track and four-track, 351 tube full-track mono, MM-1100 16-track.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-16-2015, 11:34 AM
JFreak's Avatar
JFreak JFreak is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Tampere, Finland
Posts: 24,853
Default Re: Metering Classic vs Sample Peak

Yes. Just turn up the damn monitoring volume (you have a knob for it, right?) instead of trying to kill the AD converters. Transients are lost very easily.
__________________
Janne
What we do in life, echoes in eternity.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03-16-2015, 11:58 AM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 19,515
Default Re: Metering Classic vs Sample Peak

Quote:
Originally Posted by JFreak View Post
Yes. Just turn up the damn monitoring volume (you have a knob for it, right?) instead of trying to kill the AD converters. Transients are lost very easily.
You already gave the best explanation re dynamic range. That is the beginning and end of all that is needed to understand what analog converter/dBFS range somebody should be aiming at. If things are not clear/obvious from that them there are more likely fundamental misunderstandings that would be good for the OP to read up on and fill in his technical knowledge.

There are more than enough clues here that the OP has one or more issues on the analog side. Yet the fixation remains about what color some digital meter is showing, not more useful things like mic technique, checking phantom power, (signal generator) testing the preamp, trying a better preamp, ... Stuff that I suspect everybody here replying to this thread would have instinctively done... and we all would all likely be starting this recording with tons of ADC headroom.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 03-16-2015, 12:06 PM
JFreak's Avatar
JFreak JFreak is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Tampere, Finland
Posts: 24,853
Default Re: Metering Classic vs Sample Peak

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
You already gave the best explanation re dynamic range.
Thank you for that. Seriously. It made my day to hear there is at least one person that gets my message
__________________
Janne
What we do in life, echoes in eternity.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 03-16-2015, 08:12 PM
Muddy-T's Avatar
Muddy-T Muddy-T is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands
Posts: 314
Default Re: Metering Classic vs Sample Peak

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
My experience has been that the two most common causes of brittle "digital sound" are inadequately powered transistor analog stages even in expensive gear and the truncation distortion caused by failure to dither each and every bit reduction.
Thanks for that Bob. If you got the time, please elaborate on these observations.
__________________
"Don't look; listen!"

At work; 2013 27" iMac/i5/2.9GHz/8GB, OSX 10.8.5, PT 10.3.6

At home; Custom Made Mac (Hackintosh) i7 (3770 "Ivy Bridge")/3.4GHz/32GB@2400MHz, Samsung SSD 840 EVO 250GB System Drive, Samsung SSD 750 EVO 250GB Audio Drive, OSX 10.10.5, PT 12.8.1
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 03-17-2015, 03:46 AM
joachim's Avatar
joachim joachim is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Germany, München
Posts: 1,687
Default Re: Metering Classic vs Sample Peak

Quote:
Originally Posted by JFreak View Post
... at least one person that gets my message...
There is always a dark figure (at least one more). You nailed the holy truth together with Darryl in post #6 and #7.
__________________
PT 11.3.2 HD , RME Fireface 800 , Genelec 5.1 ,
Win7 64bit Professional , i7 3930 Hexcore , 48GB Ram , SSD System + SSD PT Session/Audio + SSD Video (all Samsung 840 Evo) + Spinner 1TB Data , 2x Radeon HD 5450 \\ SD 633 Femto MKH8060 MKH8070 MKH30/MKH40 DPA4060
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 04-01-2015, 03:29 AM
holler holler is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 161
Default Re: Metering Classic vs Sample Peak

Quote:
Originally Posted by Park Seward View Post
Kenny has made a great tutorial on recording levels:

http://www.kennymania.com/recording-...-in-pro-tools/

It should answer many questions about setting the proper levels.

That is where I got the -18 db.
That's cool!! I found VENUE Peak Meter works great too, then having the Sample Peak meter on the master!

br
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Peak Over Metering never light in 24bits record ppm Pro Tools M-Powered (Win) 0 07-23-2009 11:33 PM
7.3.1cs3 Incorrect Peak Over Metering Matt_G Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 1 06-29-2007 04:11 PM
Interesting metering software (with peak logging) postprosound Post - Surround - Video 11 03-20-2007 02:36 AM
Metering Average/Peak Levels chateau Tips & Tricks 5 07-01-2003 12:35 AM
Can someone explain the Difference between Peak and RMS metering TriAxis 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 4 02-27-2003 06:28 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:57 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com