New Mac - M1 vs Mac Pro 2019

[dominicperry]

Yes, I have probably said that about the 16-core in the past - the jump in price for the 24 and 28 cores is big, because Intel's price for those is several thousand dollars more - partly because they can, but partly because there are extra memory lanes, allowing 1.5TB RAM on the 24/28 instead of 768GB on the smaller models.

If you have 30 mins, this Neil Parfitt video does a good explanation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXl4rPEgFBA
and a second video from him
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMC2EEu-6aM


If you want the lowest latency, fastest VI response, then a faster processor (higher clock speed) should theoretically be better, and the 16 core still has a pretty good base clock speed. If you're not playing live, it's academic.

I think you can reasonably expect a 30% increase in raw power from a 28 core over a 16 core. The question is whether you really need that or not.

Dominic

[stargazer]

Thanks a lot, checking the videos now!

[stargazer]

Lots of good info there!

I still wonder what would be best suited for big VI-centered orchestral sessions in Pro Tools - more cores or higher clock speed.
I think I can get a 24-core for almost the same price as a 16-core.

[EGS]

Originally Posted by stargazer

... best suited for big VI-centered orchestral sessions in Pro Tools - more cores or higher clock speed ...

Higher clock speed.

[Darryl Ramm]

How will 24 cores run vs 16... nobody here can give you an accurate guess. It's all highly depended on what plugins you are running, how the session is chaining them together, etc. And in pathological cases it won't scale past one or a few core (or crash with CPU errors) let alone 16/32 cores... But around 16 core (32 virtual core) I'd stop wanting to add any more cores.

If you buy a current gen cheesegrater you likely are not buying a computer for long long term use. Old previous gen cheesegraters have been great things to invest in/upgrade for many people. That's likely to be less of a story for the current cheesegraters as Apple eventually give up support on Intel macOS releases and Avid and plugin and tools vendors eventually stop releasing new software releases/updates on Intel. This may be a way off, but it will be a more dramatic cliff for many users than how well the old cheesegraters have lasted.

Personally I'd be very willing to wait things out and see what Apple has coming. If I absolutely needed something today then I'd be looking at what are the low-cost options that can get the job done and save money for the inevitable Apple silicon migration. I'm expecting Apple to kick ass here for many years of silicon releases (and Intel to have trouble catching up).

[GoButtonGuy]

We’ve been using M1 Minis for mission critical playback for a couple of months. We’re also using them for streaming on mid size corporate gigs. Music composition has moved mostly to M1 with Logic and Live.

One can restore an M1 machine from the recovery portion without a network and get the machine to a restore point without accessing a network. Been there, done that as a contingency test for the playback rigs. I did it with my personal M1 Pro after a install/restore from the previous machine didn’t work so well. Lesson on that one is full fresh install for everything but data. Those need to be known quantities right out of the gate.

It depends on the workflow when and what to switch. I’m putting in a couple large rigs on another show and those were purposely speced Intel. They’ll get locked down and run for years. Just like the PT v8-v12 rigs we have up and down the block that work great and make money to this day.

For a full time, primary money making Pro Tools rig? Not quite yet. Not for me anyway. It’s great for bumpers and mixes for the streams but none of the Wave racks or SGS drivers work. That means no Dugan Automixer for TV/corporate types. Though all my other Waves work natively. I quit trying to get the bundled Avid plugs working a month or so ago. Not ready. There are some other issues as well. Dante has some issues particularly DVS. They just finished an alpha test run, another test will start soon hopefully something that is closer. Via has some hiccups, Controller seems to work fine.

Depending on what you’re doing it works great, far better performance than Intel in many cases. For others, not so much. It will be a while.

[audiolex1]

Here is my thought on this.

The M1 and beyond is going to pretty much going to change everything especially when things go native Silicon.

I was considering a Mac Pro at about 12k but was looking at the initial MacMini and MacBook tests out there and decided to wait.

Knowing that the Silicon is going to end up with 32/48 and 64 cores if not 128 cores in the foreseeable future, I decided that my 5,1 with and expansion chassis and metal GPU could last me another few years while apple develops the Chips and starts expanding their pro Line.

Granted the Mac Pro with PCI-e might be a longer wait then I really want, I though why buy into older tech that is going to be like my 5,1 and out of date (though there was enough options through the years to keep it going plenty well) I figured might as well start on the newer system rather than an older system.
I don't doubt that it will be any less expensive, though with their own chips and control they might bring it back to the days of the 3-6k machines using the same chassis.

I mean the cheese grater lasted over 10 years.

So I bought a MBP 10 core rather than a referb intel MBP going in knowing that I have to downgrade to Big Sur and maybe not everything will work out of the gate.
Some I know are using the M1 in Minis and saying it is working well.

I need a new laptop anyway, and it will be a good proving ground going forward in configuring, ect.

Seems Rosetta 2 really works well porting the x86 code to native and I haven't heard that many issues other than the mentioned issues with the live rigs, primary rigs etc, but will help with growing pains going forward.

I'm guessing, but I expect 16-24 core mini's by fall. If not 32. Intel is butthurt and even the new i9's while they say beats the M1's, it has issues as well.

And M1 has been out for over a year, and the core game from Apple is coming, growing with less power and less heat. I think there is a 15 watt difference Apple being lower.

I have a 3 year upgrade model for what I am doing and it will all be Apple. I won't move to Windows.
I think in my decision it just came at what do I need NOW, what can I wait on and how long can I wait before I get into a Desktop pro model.

Anyway, it is a new game and choice and when to make that choice is going to be what it is all about.

[Sardi]

Originally Posted by audiolex1

So I bought a MBP 10 core rather than a referb intel MBP going in knowing that I have to downgrade to Big Sur and maybe not everything will work out of the gate.

If you need Big Sur, best return that laptop.

You’ll only be able to run Monterey on the 2021 MBP.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[stargazer]

I guess I could stay on my 5,1 for some time, get a new GPU to be able to upgrade my macOS, and add a Sonnet or Amfeltec PCIe M.2 adapter card, to improve sample streaming (even if this Mac can’t use the full bandwidth of such cards/blades).
I’m gonna do a lot of big orchestral VIs sessions work this year, and even though I have a decent Windows VE Pro server, PT struggles a bit, since I also need to use a VE Pro server on the same machine.
Wondering if upgrading my 5,1 would solve those issues, or if I need a newer Mac.

For example, I’d like to be able to work with a lower H/W Buffer Size, at least in moderate sized sessions/arrangements.
I’d also would like to get rid of the sluggish midi operation when a session gets a bit larger.
When I drag events or use the trim tool in the midi editor, I have to wait for a second after releasing the mouse button, and not move the mouse any further, to let go of the event/object. Otherwise it’s like it still holds on to the midi and keeps on dragging it while I’m on my way moving the mouse to do something else, and my edit is altered in some random way.
Anyone else seen this?
I’m hoping this behaviour will change with an upgrade or a newer Mac.

As an alternative to the 5,1 upgrade, I can get a (new with upgraded CPU) MP 7,1 (2019) 24-Core 2.7GHz | AMD 580X | 1GB SSD | 384GB RAM,
an Amfeltec 4-Slot SSD adapter card and 4x 2TB M.2 NVMe SSDs for $11.000 taxes deducted, almost the same price as a 16-core from the same vendor.

About the question regarding clock rate vs number of cores (16 vs 24) in relation to sample streaming across multiple tracks (Synchron, Spitfire, Kontakt, Opus etc), I’ve heard a few different voices and opinions so far.
Any more knowledge or thoughts on this?

[audiolex1]

Originally Posted by Sardi

If you need Big Sur, best return that laptop.

You’ll only be able to run Monterey on the 2021 MBP.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Where is this info at? I've heard all around how the firmware will not let you run older OS's but I've been able to boot into an older OS.

This video seems to show it is possible with DFU.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-FsB2onSx0&t=468s