Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Software > Windows

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-10-2021, 11:35 AM
The Weed's Avatar
The Weed The Weed is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,598
Default Meter Reading For Incoming Signal...

Pro Tools 2021.3.1, Widows 10 Pro latest update.

I've been using Pro Tools since 2001. I understand Pre and Post Fader Metering, I understand that a Fader does not change the level of an incoming signal, only the monitoring level, and I know that plug-ins on a Track are Pre Fader (and on a Master are Post Fader).

I almost always just record myself. I set my mic pre at the level for the read, step in the booth and start talking. Very, very rarely do I record someone else. However, today I'm setting up to be remote directed via phone patch and need to lower the volume of the incoming signal from the phone patch.

All good so far, I bring in the tone from the phone and lower the Fader...But, while the sound from the monitor goes down, the signal level in the Track's meter does not. I double check, and yes, Pre Fader Metering is UNchecked in Options. I try my mic signal. Same thing when I lower the Track's Fader, the monitoring sound goes down, but the signal level stays the same.

I try a Track that already has audio on it. Signal level goes down AND the meter level goes down when I lower the Fader.

There is no Volume Automation on any Track.

I would have thought that, in Post Fader Monitoring, both the incoming signal level and any audio's level already on the Track, should both act the same in the Track's meter when a Fader is moved.

Is this metering difference between incoming signal and audio already on a Track new or has it always been like this and I just never noticed it before?

Thanks.
__________________
Take your projects to the next level with a
non-union national read at reasonable rates
Demos: brucehayward dot com
Source-Connect: brucehayward
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-10-2021, 03:06 PM
albee1952 albee1952 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Norwich, CT
Posts: 36,694
Default Re: Meter Reading For Incoming Signal...

Hey Bruce, I think you are just misunderstanding some tech stuff. The only way actual recording level will drop is if you turn down the preamp gain(which you will hear, no matter how you meter). Personally(having done this for 100 years), I almost never use Post-fade metering. Why? Because I always want to know where the actual audio level is, and not where it goes if the fader gets moved(up or down). With Post metering, you could have a track that is totally clipped by too hot gain on the way in, or by some plugin processing, but a lowered fader can hide that. I know you're thinking "I would hear that!", and you probably would if you had a handful of tracks. But, in a big music mix with dozens of tracks, that kind of "bad audio" can be masked in a lot of ways(post-fader metering being only one of those ways). The one time I will use Post-fader metering is if I need to balance several tracks of the same kind of sound(like several BGV tracks or several violin tracks, and metering goes right back to Pre after that balance is achieved). The rest of the time, I will balance by ear
__________________
Gigabyte X79/intel i7 3930K, 32GB RAM, Presonus Studio 1810C
https://www.facebook.com/search/top/...0sound%20works


I started in this business with nothing..........and I have most of it left

BTW, my name is Dave, but most people call me.........................Dave
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-10-2021, 03:42 PM
Ben Jenssen's Avatar
Ben Jenssen Ben Jenssen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Oslo
Posts: 3,682
Default Re: Meter Reading For Incoming Signal...

Hmmm…
Is it just a matter of rec enable turns the meter to input?
What is a phone patch, anyway?
__________________
Life-long audio enthusiast and small studio owner. Retired.
Mac Mini 2018, six-core 3.2gHz i7, 32 gb RAM.
Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 2nd gen, Dynaudio BM6's, Command 8 and iPad w/Avid Control.
Pro Tools 2020.12.1, Mac OS 10.15.7.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-10-2021, 04:12 PM
The Weed's Avatar
The Weed The Weed is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,598
Default Re: Meter Reading For Incoming Signal...

Dave, thanks for the reply.

As I mentioned in my post: "I understand that a Fader does not change the level of an incoming signal, only the monitoring level."

What I am seeing when a track is in record, and the Track is not in Pre Fader Metering, is that the meter level does not change when a Fader is moved although the monitoring volume is changed. Playing back audio the meter changes as does the monitoring volume.

Ben,

You may be right, can't say yes or no. A phone patch is hardware that brings someone on a phone into a session and sends the session audio out to the person on the phone. I use a Telos Hx1.
__________________
Take your projects to the next level with a
non-union national read at reasonable rates
Demos: brucehayward dot com
Source-Connect: brucehayward
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-11-2021, 01:08 AM
XJENSEN XJENSEN is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Gent, Belgium, Europe
Posts: 404
Default Re: Meter Reading For Incoming Signal...

This is normal behaviour. When you Record -arm a track, or put it into Input Monitoring mode, you will always see the (pre-fader) input level. For Input Monitoring, this can be circumvented by using an Aux instead.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-11-2021, 06:52 AM
albee1952 albee1952 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Norwich, CT
Posts: 36,694
Default Re: Meter Reading For Incoming Signal...

"What I am seeing when a track is in record, and the Track is not in Pre Fader Metering, is that the meter level does not change when a Fader is moved although the monitoring volume is changed."

That is as expected. I'm still not clear on why you would want it different

"Playing back audio the meter changes as does the monitoring volume."

This is expected when using Post-fade metering, which I would NOT be using(especially during recording).
__________________
Gigabyte X79/intel i7 3930K, 32GB RAM, Presonus Studio 1810C
https://www.facebook.com/search/top/...0sound%20works


I started in this business with nothing..........and I have most of it left

BTW, my name is Dave, but most people call me.........................Dave
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-11-2021, 11:25 AM
The Weed's Avatar
The Weed The Weed is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,598
Default Re: Meter Reading For Incoming Signal...

Quote:
Originally Posted by XJENSEN View Post
This is normal behaviour. When you Record -arm a track, or put it into Input Monitoring mode, you will always see the (pre-fader) input level. For Input Monitoring, this can be circumvented by using an Aux instead.
Thanks, it's what I thought was happening, but wanted confirmation.

As I mentioned, I very, very rarely record anyone else, I just set my mic pre for the read I'm doing, start record, step in my booth and start talking, so I never see the meter when I'm recording. This time, as I was setting up the session, I did see the meter with an incoming signal.
__________________
Take your projects to the next level with a
non-union national read at reasonable rates
Demos: brucehayward dot com
Source-Connect: brucehayward
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-11-2021, 11:37 AM
The Weed's Avatar
The Weed The Weed is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,598
Default Re: Meter Reading For Incoming Signal...

Quote:
Originally Posted by albee1952 View Post
"What I am seeing when a track is in record, and the Track is not in Pre Fader Metering, is that the meter level does not change when a Fader is moved although the monitoring volume is changed."

That is as expected. I'm still not clear on why you would want it different

"Playing back audio the meter changes as does the monitoring volume."

This is expected when using Post-fade metering, which I would NOT be using(especially during recording).
As I mentioned, I very, very rarely record anyone else, I just set my mic pre for the read I'm doing, start record, step in my booth and start talking, so I never see the meter when I'm recording. This time, as I was setting up the session, I did see the meter with an incoming signal, so I was curious if this was expected behavior. Since I've now found that when in Record or Input, the signal shown is Pre Fader, I now know that it's expected behavior.

Personally, I'm always in Post Fader Metering because I don't usually do any production, I only record myself and when I do I can't see the meters anyway and my Faders are almost always at zero. There are times when I need to set levels for a movie sound track for remote session direction of Described Video and need to see the volume reduction in the meter, so Post Fader Metering is necessary for that and it's just easier to leave it there.
__________________
Take your projects to the next level with a
non-union national read at reasonable rates
Demos: brucehayward dot com
Source-Connect: brucehayward
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sound but no meter reading!! James Ivan macOS 5 02-23-2019 07:12 AM
Digi002 - RCA-S/PDIF not showing incoming signal Ormond 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 4 03-13-2010 10:11 AM
Incoming signal even when protools is off MiguelOne604 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 0 06-14-2006 03:41 PM
001 LE 5.1 incoming ADAT signal too hot Isaacvw 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 7 05-01-2006 10:54 AM
Using an Aux Input to record plug ins on incoming signal...Discuss.. Jules Tips & Tricks 8 03-19-2001 04:38 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:01 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com