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  #1  
Old 03-14-2008, 04:53 PM
geelo geelo is offline
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Join Date: May 2007
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Default Overdub / Punch Ins - Double Monitoring Workflow Issues

Hello,

I've tried a search for this, but came up with nothing, here is my problem:

(003 w/ LE7 on a G5 dual 2ghz)

During tracking...
I am creating Zero Latency monitor headphone mixes in a separate mixing board - which is fed straight from external mic pres. The mic pres also feed the 003 in parallel. Since I am monitoring off a mixer (and not the 003), I will mute the record enabled PT faders during tracking (or just not send the 003 output to headphones).

However, when we are at the overdub stage, we need to hear the original tracks. So I'll un-mute the tracks that the overdubbing musicians needs to hear - and also send the 003 main monitor outputs to the monitor mixer to be sent back to the headphone mix.

The problem lies in that when we are punching in a track - we hear the double monitor phasing effect - where the musician hears themselves both through the monitor mixer, as well as off the 003. But we can't mute the record-enabled track since the musician is punching in and needs to hear what else they've played before and after the punch.

Is there a way to do overdub punch ins, and have the record-enabled track mute itself just for the period of time that the track is recording? But both before and after the punch, the musician can hear their original track.

Or, are there any other ways for this double monitoring to be addressed. I imagine that everyone who does punch ins and overdubs has this issue...no?

Thanks,
GeeLo
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  #2  
Old 03-15-2008, 04:54 AM
andrewSF andrewSF is offline
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Default Re: Overdub / Punch Ins - Double Monitoring Workflow Issues

In a situation like this I usually create a new track that is the "record" track for the performer being overdubbed. I can either mute this track and have the performer monitor off the direct feed, or use low-latency monitoring (if it's on a firewire LE system) so the performer hears himself through this new track.

Then I will cut out the audio from the track being "punched into" where the punch is to occur. This way the performer hears the existing audio up to the point where they need to replay the part. When they've got a part down I drag that region into the gap in the original track. This is a bit of a kludge, but once it's set up it works pretty well.

The big limitation to this method is that you need enough free tracks to make new record tracks for whatever tracks are being dubbed. Thus if you've got 28 tracks, you could do this kind of OD for 4 of them, but not more. In some situations I'll create a slave session with the rhythm tracks bounced to a stereo pair or something to free up more tracks.

Another way to work is to punch into the original track and manually mute it as you do the punch, but again this works if you're only doing one track at a time (although you could make a group of multiple tracks and mute them together) and it is an extra task to attend to (and possibly screw up).

Unfortunately the mute when you record function isn't available in PT, although it's commonly asked about because it would be quite handy for these kinds of situations. Maybe some day...
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  #3  
Old 03-15-2008, 11:24 AM
geelo geelo is offline
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 47
Default Re: Overdub / Punch Ins - Double Monitoring Workflow Issues

Thanks Andrew,

I appreciate the tips and clarification.

I've been doing the "manually mute during the punch" method that you describe. However, I was doing punch in's for 4 tracks of horns - and it was getting very annoying and tedious!

Perhaps, I'll start to use more of the low latency monitoring feature - and just send the musicians back the PT mix. However, when I have a great standalone headphone mix going outside the box - I don't want to have to change the feel in the headphones halfway during the session - once we move on to punches.

Maybe I'll start trying your "separate track for punches method". Is there an easy way to shift the new region up to the original track without shifting it left or right? (this is probably a stupid question, but I have never had the need to move regions from track to track before).

Thanks,
GeeLo
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  #4  
Old 03-16-2008, 12:31 PM
andrewSF andrewSF is offline
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 194
Default Re: Overdub / Punch Ins - Double Monitoring Workflow Issues

Quote:
Perhaps, I'll start to use more of the low latency monitoring feature - and just send the musicians back the PT mix. However, when I have a great standalone headphone mix going outside the box - I don't want to have to change the feel in the headphones halfway during the session - once we move on to punches.

Maybe I'll start trying your "separate track for punches method".
Just see what works best for your particular setup. I'll use different approaches depending on where I'm working and what the equipment is like. It's good to have a repertoire of different techniques so you can adapt to whatever the demands and constraints of any particular situation you encounter. Sometimes you have to do a clumsy work-around, just don't let the players know how much of a pain it is!

Quote:
Is there an easy way to shift the new region up to the original track without shifting it left or right?
Use cntrl+click and drag with the grabber tool to vertically constrain your movement. I usually use the multi-tool with the grabber set for separation. Then I just highlight the part of the region I want to move and option+cntrl+drag it into the original track(that leaves the OD track intact, in case I'm saving multiple takes or something).
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