Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Software > Pro Tools 2021

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #21  
Old 04-26-2021, 12:55 PM
Wolfgang Eller Wolfgang Eller is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,131
Default Re: PT mixer headroom severely reduced to 20dB over 0dBFS. Bug?

If a freak is doing an accident like this it's worth to ruin his work.
__________________
www.srs-mastering.de
Mac Pro 6.1-8core, OS 10.15, PT2021, HDX2, Sonnet Echo Express III-R, Madi Interface.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04-26-2021, 04:35 PM
Top Jimmy's Avatar
Top Jimmy Top Jimmy is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 5,526
Default Re: PT mixer headroom severely reduced to 20dB over 0dBFS. Bug?

Another facet of this issue is that if you import a floating point file with audio above +20dBFS, you cannot use the Audiosuite Gain plugin to decrease the gain of the file. Using AS Gain results in a permanently distorted file.
__________________
James Cadwallader

Hackintosh - Gigabyte Z77X-UP5TH, Intel Core i7-3770K, 32GB 1600Mhz DDR3, 2x SATA 6Gb/s 240GB SSD, 3x SATA 6Gb/s 1TB HDD, 1x Glyph 2TB USB3 HDD, Mojave 10.14.6.

Pro Tools Ultimate 2021.3, HD Native, Focusrite Red 8Pre (Mac)
Pro Tools 2020.12, Mbox3 (Win)

Presonus Faderport, Pro Tools | Control
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04-26-2021, 11:32 PM
XJENSEN XJENSEN is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Gent, Belgium, Europe
Posts: 408
Default Re: PT mixer headroom severely reduced to 20dB over 0dBFS. Bug?

Yes, these floating point issues with AS gain are known to Avid. I have already reported them way back. Correct and consistent audio processing doesn't seem a priority for Pro Tools.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 04-27-2021, 01:33 AM
midnightrambler midnightrambler is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: London, UK
Posts: 2,524
Default Re: PT mixer headroom severely reduced to 20dB over 0dBFS. Bug?

Whilst I'm in agreement with the posts that say, "Why would you need to push the level that hard?", the fact that this is yet another aspect of the software that's broken for no apparent reason is really, really depressing. It doesn't inspire confidence that other critical things won't get broken down the line.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 04-27-2021, 10:32 PM
seanmccoy seanmccoy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 559
Default Re: PT mixer headroom severely reduced to 20dB over 0dBFS. Bug?

For post projects I have on several occasions needed to add over 20 dB of gain to ultra-soft field recordings. So this is a potential issue on a practical level.
__________________
ADK Core i7 4.20, 32GB RAM, W10 Pro, PT HD 2021.6.1, HD Native, OMNI, Digi 192, AJA Kona LHi, UAD-2 Octo; Mac Pro 12-core 3.46, 64GB RAM, Mojave, Logic Pro 10.5.1, Apogee Rosetta 800, UAD-2 Quad, MOTU 2408 Mk II: MBP mid-2012, 16GB RAM, Mojave, MOTU 8-Pre-ES, Pro Tools 2021.3.1
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 04-28-2021, 01:32 AM
Wolfgang Eller Wolfgang Eller is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,131
Default Re: PT mixer headroom severely reduced to 20dB over 0dBFS. Bug?

Quote:
Originally Posted by seanmccoy View Post
For post projects I have on several occasions needed to add over 20 dB of gain to ultra-soft field recordings.
An ultra-soft field recording is not leveled at 0dbfs.
The problem is if you gain a file 20db over 0dbfs.
__________________
www.srs-mastering.de
Mac Pro 6.1-8core, OS 10.15, PT2021, HDX2, Sonnet Echo Express III-R, Madi Interface.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 04-28-2021, 07:06 AM
Rich Breen Rich Breen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Burbank, CA USA
Posts: 1,956
Default Re: PT mixer headroom severely reduced to 20dB over 0dBFS. Bug?

Quote:
Originally Posted by seanmccoy View Post
For post projects I have on several occasions needed to add over 20 dB of gain to ultra-soft field recordings. So this is a potential issue on a practical level.
Hi Sean - the issue is not adding 20dB or more of gain to something - that of course is fine - if it wasn't the world would spin off its axis. The issue occurs when gaining a clip up more than 20dB *over* full scale - the floating point engine should be able to recover signals *hundreds* of dB over "full scale" without clipping, but something weird is going on. Admittedly an edge-case, but still seems like an odd bug.
__________________
http://www.richbreen.com

----------------------------------------
MacPro 5,1 Dual Hex, OS 10.14, PT 2021.3 HDX, Avid HD I/Os and Metric Halo ULN8, Avid C24, 3xS1/Dock.
Also running a 2013 nMP / HDX / S6

Last edited by Rich Breen; 04-28-2021 at 09:59 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 04-28-2021, 10:05 AM
seanmccoy seanmccoy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 559
Default Re: PT mixer headroom severely reduced to 20dB over 0dBFS. Bug?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Breen View Post
Hi Sean - the issue is not adding 20dB or more of gain to something - that of course is fine - if it wasn't the world would spin off its axis. The issue occurs when gaining a clip up more than 20dB *over* full scale - the floating point engine should be able to recover signals *hundreds* of dB over "full scale" without clipping, but something weird is going on. Admittedly an edge-case, but still seems like an odd bug.
Hey, Rich, good to know. Now can somebody tell me when one might need 20dB over full scale? Talk baby talk.
__________________
ADK Core i7 4.20, 32GB RAM, W10 Pro, PT HD 2021.6.1, HD Native, OMNI, Digi 192, AJA Kona LHi, UAD-2 Octo; Mac Pro 12-core 3.46, 64GB RAM, Mojave, Logic Pro 10.5.1, Apogee Rosetta 800, UAD-2 Quad, MOTU 2408 Mk II: MBP mid-2012, 16GB RAM, Mojave, MOTU 8-Pre-ES, Pro Tools 2021.3.1
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 04-28-2021, 11:07 AM
daeron80 daeron80 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Orlando, Florida, USA
Posts: 3,865
Default Re: PT mixer headroom severely reduced to 20dB over 0dBFS. Bug?

Apparently, some of us work only on audio we produced ourselves. But others of us receive wildly horrendous audio from clients, and sometimes have to finish jobs in a massive hurry due to circumstances beyond our control. The floating point engine is there (in part) to handle things when things get crazy. It's broken, and it needs to be fixed.
__________________
David J. Finnamore

Nyquist was right.

PT 2021.6 Ultimate | Omni | macOS Catalina in a Trashcan 32GB
PT 2021.6 | Saffire Pro 40 | Win10 latest, HP Z440 64GB
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 04-28-2021, 11:56 AM
Wolfgang Eller Wolfgang Eller is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,131
Default Re: PT mixer headroom severely reduced to 20dB over 0dBFS. Bug?

Quote:
Originally Posted by daeron80 View Post
But others of us receive wildly horrendous audio from clients, and sometimes have to finish jobs in a massive hurry due to circumstances beyond our control.
But still, why is there any need to gain a file 20db above 0dbfs?
Any 32bit float file I get from a client I convert it by import into a 24bit fixed.
For me there is no reason for using 32 float.
I have learned to use gain structure.
__________________
www.srs-mastering.de
Mac Pro 6.1-8core, OS 10.15, PT2021, HDX2, Sonnet Echo Express III-R, Madi Interface.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Avid reports severely disappointing 3rd quarter peter5992 General Discussion 11 10-31-2012 01:34 PM
Phase invert and -10/20db pad? Pherson ICON & C|24 2 09-17-2008 12:49 PM
Peaking above 0dBFS rems 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 1 08-16-2005 01:06 PM
OSX - 001 crashing and severely distorting Brian West 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 2 07-04-2003 08:40 AM
5.1 - really severely uncool region bug destruktobot MIDI 0 07-28-2001 04:32 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:20 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com