Strange Clip LED Behavior. No Clip LEDs on PlugIns anymore ?

[innenhofstudios]

Hi Folks,

Did you know that there is no clipping indication on some plug ins anymore? i can raise my level with ClipGain to the max, already listening to heavy distorted audio but...funny. No CLIPPING is shown by an inserted plug. Some of my Plug Ins actually doesent even have clip lights anymore.
But turning input or output gain just by +0.1db it suddenly shows a clipping.

yes of course with floating point and the new Protools Bus i cannot overload the bus...but with a plug inserted i can.

any same experiences ?

IMO this sucks a lot...just imagine e.g. group inserts, fast working with clip gain and no visual control,...



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i7 Core , 12 Gb
PT HD2 TDM 10.2
OS 10.6.8

[rainerpuschner]

Same here!

I recently installed PT 10.2 and since then all my clip LEDs are gone - they are not in the plugin window, nor does the insert turn red when my plugin does clipping...

I understand, that PT 10 has this 1000dB Bus, but my plugins don't !

I got used to these red little insert slot while mixing a lot...

Need an example? I have a vocal group with lets say 10 tracks routed to an aux track, that has an G-compressor for my vocal group... the compressor is working fine, everything is setup nicely... now i want to add 5 more tracks to that group and... I OVERLOAD the Plugin Input!!! Not the bus... Thats where i want my little red sign back please!

[rainerpuschner]

everyday situation:

a plugin chain of eq + dresser + fast compressor + slow compressor + sub bass + limiter + x + y + z routed to a bus with another 5 plugins.

Now i do a clip gain change of lets say 3dB and can hear distortion... but which plugin is the clipping one?

This little red sign helped so many times... WE NEED IT BACK!

[whittybeats]

Updated to 10.3.4, I've noticed that my plug-ins are no longer showing red when clipping. I didn't realize there was an issue until I just happened to have a plugin open and noticed it was clipping on the plug in itself but not where it sits on the Inserts. Is anyone else having this problem with the latest update?

[musicman691]

Clipping indications depend on gain staging and where you have your metering set - pre or post fader. Have a bunch of plugs especially eq and compression (sometimes multiple compressors) on a track you really have to pay attention to gain staging. Most people don't stop to think that unless you're doing subtractive eq you're ADDING energy to a signal so up goes your overall signal level. You want to find which plugs are doing the clipping? Try bypassing an individual plug - don't depend on some no-longer-there indicator. Watch your track metering. Work with one plugin at a time.

[sunburst79]

Some older plugs like Massey's emulated the clipping of lower headroom in the fixed TDM bus in the RTAS versions. In the new architecture one could clip the plug yet be no were near clipping the mixer.

[whittybeats]

Originally Posted by musicman691

Clipping indications depend on gain staging and where you have your metering set - pre or post fader. Have a bunch of plugs especially eq and compression (sometimes multiple compressors) on a track you really have to pay attention to gain staging. Most people don't stop to think that unless you're doing subtractive eq you're ADDING energy to a signal so up goes your overall signal level. You want to find which plugs are doing the clipping? Try bypassing an individual plug - don't depend on some no-longer-there indicator. Watch your track metering. Work with one plugin at a time.

Well, I'm definitely a novice when it comes to the technical side of things. I have tried testing it with only one plug-in (EQ3-7Band) being used and just pull the clip gain meter all the way up causing the track to go into the red, and the plug in itself, but where that plug in sits on the inserts doesn't turn red like it used to. Maybe its a setting in my Preferences?

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by whittybeats

Well, I'm definitely a novice when it comes to the technical side of things. I have tried testing it with only one plug-in (EQ3-7Band) being used and just pull the clip gain meter all the way up causing the track to go into the red, and the plug in itself, but where that plug in sits on the inserts doesn't turn red like it used to. Maybe its a setting in my Preferences?

When you say 'but where that plug in sits on the inserts doesn't turn red like it used to' are you saying the plugin gui would turn red? Or the slot where the plug is in the Inserts would turn red? Doesn't exist in PT10. And like has been said you shouldn't rely on that anyways - use metering. Whether it's what's built-in to PT10 or 3rd party like from Blue Cat Audio - use metering like everyone else does. Don't rely on clip indicators - they don't always show clipping using the same criteria.

[whittybeats]

See attachment...

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by whittybeats

See attachment...

Okay now we know exactly what you are talking about. Like I said that's no excuse to not use proper metering. These clipping indicators can be fooled. And yes it's gone from PT 10. I consider it nothing more than a lazy man's crutch.