Purchased used Mbox 2 Pro w/iLok, iLok says device is not mine

[jonjenkins]

OK, so I know I am not the first one to go through the nightmare that is iLok authorization upon resale. Ouch. Here is my story, any help is sincerely appreciated.

I purchased an Mbox 2 Pro with iLok in late 2009. It came with Pro Tools 7.4.2 LE which I happily ran using the existing iLok until this holiday. We recently bought a Macbook Pro, so I attempted to move to the new system. Turns out OSX 10.6+ needs a Pro Tools upgrade, so no time like the present. Long story short, I finally had to come to terms with my iLok device--when I plugged it in on the iLok site, it said I couldn't access it, "registered to another user". I called the guy who sold it to me, and he said "well I since resold and transferred all of those licenses ... TO SOMEBODY ELSE! I am very sorry but there is nothing I can do and I don't know the contact information for that person."

When I contacted iLok to explain the situation, they have basically taken the stance "sorry, if it's not your account, you are SOL." They will try to contact the other buyer, but who knows what will happen.

I cannot believe that if you physically have all hardware in-hand, and present this type of case you are unable to upgrade or take any advantage of the hardware you own. Essentially, I am looking at starting from scratch if I am not mistaken... so I will be $500-600 "out" for the Mbox 2 Pro I bought, plus I will have to start-over as a NEW customer, not an upgrading customer. Avid, please help. This cannot be so. If it is, I think I may have to seek a different vendor because I'll be so jaded.

[Pinball Wizard]

Neither mbox pro 2 nor pt le 7 should require an ilok asset. What you have lost is probably some plug-ins.

[jonjenkins]

This helps--yes, I will have lost all of the plugins, which is still not good. Do you believe that if I buy a new iLok device, download any new Pro Tools authorization codes to that (e.g. to upgrade to version 10, Avid asked to synchronize to my iLok account with their "code"), then I will be able to proceed? It sounds like you are saying that even though an iLok might be required for Avid to allow me to upgrade to Pro Tools 10 via how they distribute their license key, it doesn't have to be the "same" iLok as the one I have in-hand? Many thanks for your advice. It really helps!

Jon

[DigiTechSupt]

Pinball Wizard is right - the iLok doesn't control your use of Pro Tools LE (which uses an Authorization Code) or the Mbox 2 Pro.

The iLok you got could have licenses on it (unless the seller removed them before providing it to you). Without being able to sign in to the ilok.com account that iLok is synced to you can't know what's on it, but if there are licenses on it they would be functional and allow plug-ins to run. (Does it have a label on it?)

You could buy an iLok or iLok2 for use with newer versions of Pro Tools or other Plug-ins.

[jonjenkins]

I guess I will buy a new iLok (2) for use with future versions of Pro Tools. The seller ironically sent me an email listing all of the contents of his iLok account (specific plug-in licenses) and told me he was in the process of initiating transfer to me (since I had bought them with my purchase of Mbox 2 Pro, Pro Tools LE 7.4.2 + plug-ins). As a new Pro Tools user, I took him at face-value and assumed this would be something I could claim via email. To be honest, I only recently fully understood the true implication of iLok/auth-code security. In the end, it is definitely "shame on the seller" as what he DID wind up doing was re-selling those plug-in license yet again to ANOTHER BUYER (all of them). He admitted this to me on a call... gave an apology, but basically told me "water under the bridge".

So, effectively, I paid him for the plug-ins once, and as a naive new user received the hardware... but he was still able to transfer all of the digital/virtual license codes to somebody else since owning the hardware isn't sufficient (though I had an email on-hand from him saying "yep, they're all being transferred to you"). Indeed a case of Caveat Emptor... live and learn.

[jonjenkins]

I also think that this shows a severe flaw in the iLok DRM model. I can see a couple of very easy solutions to this model which I cannot believe iLok hasn't thought of. Sure, the iLok hardware can only be registered to one email. However, if somebody has the hardware on-hand and plugs it into a new machine, it should give the new hardware owner a chance to "claim" the device and respective licenses--emailing the original owner so he/she can have a chance to deny the request. IMO, "denial" could only be based on the device being lost or stolen, which could very easily be enforced by providing a grace-period where a police report would need to be filed. Otherwise, the new owner of the physical hardware should most certainly have access to its contents. Physical ownership still means a lot, to me. This would then make iLok an even partner in DRM enforcement. What they have right now is a cheap, lazy model that can create some corner cases like this which get very messy in the resale market.

[Top Jimmy]

Originally Posted by jonjenkins

So, effectively, I paid him for the plug-ins once, and as a naive new user received the hardware... but he was still able to transfer all of the digital/virtual license codes to somebody else since owning the hardware isn't sufficient (though I had an email on-hand from him saying "yep, they're all being transferred to you"). Indeed a case of Caveat Emptor... live and learn.

If he sent you an iLok that had licenses on it, he could not transfer those licenses to someone else. He may have transfered the account to someone else, but if he did not have physical access to the iLok itself, he could not take the licenses from it.

Yes, you can buy a second iLok, register it to you, and put any new licenses you purchase on it. The two iLoks will play nice together. But, your biggest problem is that you will be screwed the moment the original iLok breaks, is lost, or stolen. You will have absolutely no recourse for getting the licenses back from that iLok.

Just for giggles, exactly what licenses were on that iLok anyway?

[jonjenkins]

Here is what the seller promised he would transfer to me. And yes, I get your point--I still "have" the licenses, but only until the hardware is dead. Which means they're not really mine. What an odd system.

He sent me an email saying he was "in the process of transferring" the following:

License Details

Product: BF Moogerfooger Bundle v4
Company: Digidesign
Type: License Expiration: Never
Date downloaded: Unknown
Product: Moogerfooger Analog Delay
Company: Digidesign
Type: License Expiration: Never
Date downloaded: Unknown
Product: Cosmonaut Voice
Company: Digidesign
Type: License Expiration: Never
Date downloaded: Unknown
Product: JOEMEEK SC2 Compressor
Company: Digidesign
Type: License Expiration: Never
Date downloaded: Unknown
Product: JOEMEEK VC5 Meequalizer
Company: Digidesign
Type: License Expiration: Never
Date downloaded: Unknown
Product: Maxim
Company: Digidesign
Type: License Expiration: Never
Date downloaded: Unknown
Product: TL Metro
Company: Trillium Lane Labs
Type: License Expiration: Never
Date downloaded: Unknown
Product: TL InTune
Company: Trillium Lane Labs
Type: License Expiration: Never
Date downloaded: Unknown
Product: Synchronic
Company: Digidesign
Type: License Expiration: Never
Date downloaded: Unknown
Product: TL MasterMeter
Company: Trillium Lane Labs
Type: License Expiration: Never
Date downloaded: Unknown
Product: TL EveryPhase
Company: Trillium Lane Labs
Type: License Expiration: Never
Date downloaded: Unknown

[Top Jimmy]

BF Moogerfooger Bundle v4
Moogerfooger Analog Delay
Cosmonaut Voice
JOEMEEK SC2 Compressor
JOEMEEK VC5 Meequalizer
Maxim free
TL Metro free
TL InTune free
Synchronic
TL MasterMeter free
TL EveryPhase

Rest assured that when you do lose it, you haven't lost much. Some of those plugins are now free since PT8, and the others are not really so desirable. You can find licenses for them for pennies on the supposed retail value. I know, having something and then losing it is certainly not pleasant, but you haven't been screwed out of top notch plugins.

[jonjenkins]

Good to know. I probably paid only $200 more out of pocket for receiving the plug-ins bundle, but yes--indeed--that is still $200.

Originally when I posted this thread, as you can read above, I believed that I couldn't even upgrade Pro Tools to the latest version (since the newer licenses, like the demo for 10, go on the iLok device). Now I've been educated that that can be a NEW iLok (which puts me out another $50 since I can't use the old one that is not in my name)... my loss is indeed not so bad.

But I still have lost something, and I stand by my statement(s) that the iLok DRM process is not anywhere near ideal. I'd call it "weak" at best. Their responsiveness and overall helpfulness to my questions indicates they are, as I predicted, lazy and greedy, and simply tied to a model that has been "good enough to keep earning them royalties".

This forum helped me more than anything else.